Thursday, September 29, 2011

Signs of the Times in the Crosshairs

As it turns out I do not have a clear idea of what I am talking about in this post and you probably shouldn't pay any attention to it. I don't know what to do about it so I will just leave it here as it is and that's how it is



Dog Poet Transmitting.......

May your noses always be cold and wet.

Every now and then we have to come together and show what we are made of, that is; if we are composed of anything one would consider worth saving. I don’t know who said it but someone once said, “if we don’t hang together then we shall all hang separately. The French authorities are going after Signs of the Times.

I’ve had my differences with the Signs of the Times people but I would say that the main falling out on my part was that I was in favor of the use of psychotropic substances for my own personal use. As I remember, it had to do with psychedelics because I hadn’t even used ketamine at that point (grin). It was about seven years ago now that I met them; gone down to their lodgings in France and had a couple of visits.

I had gone down there with the intention of possibly being able to network with them and maybe even join in with them for mutual profit and sharing of resources for the greater good. I had hoped they might be interested in publishing my books. That’s no longer a concern since I have some fine and splendid people like Amarynth and Eric to handle that end of things for me now. Psychedelics are not for everyone but they had been of incalculable assistance to me in my search for a greater understanding of myself and the world in which I live. The people at Signs of the Times, hereafter to be referred to as SOTT, are opposed to the use of chemical enhancements and this is in line with teachers everywhere, because it’s not something for the general public to profit from. On the other hand, what can one say of alcohol which is a hundred times more murderous and insidious and which the general population is addicted to, to the point that it is harmful all the way up and down the ladder, especially among the lawmakers with their martini and scotch glazed eyes and dreadful behavior but they have different rules for themselves. It’s a sticky wicket and I don’t want to spend too much time on it. Let me just say that some of us have a special dispensation from the hierarchy to act as a testing field for the greater good; we visionaries and pioneers (grin), like Terrence McKenna, Aldous Huxley and John Lilly.

They were perfectly correct in looking askance at me for being in favor of this avenue of research but maybe less so in forming an opinion concerning special cases. It’s understandable that this would not sit well with them but the bottom line is that I do not promote the use of these things among other people. We each make our own decisions and we each must bear the consequences. I’m good with that. I bring this up only to point out that they are straight in that regard and as far as official powers go, whom we know engage in the proliferation of these items for social control and black bag operations, that’s within the professed guidelines.

They’re being accused of being a cult and that is something that they are not, as far as my limited observations can be considered to be trustworthy. I’m very tuned in when it comes to that kind of a thing, in any case. I’m one of the sharper tools in the drawer in spotting mind control games and the manipulation of perception and behavior. In the sixties I became something of an idiot savant and street level guru to the youth in Dupont Circle due to my kundalini awakening. People came to hear me speak there and trusted me, even though I was only 19 years old and even though the kundalini thing had not yet happened, it was on the way.

One day, two young girls around the age of sixteen came to me and asked me what I thought about Scientology, which had their flagship operation right up the street. I didn’t know that much about them but I was superficially familiar with the book “Dianetics": it was called something like that. I told them I thought it was bullshit or words to that effect and thought no more about it. A day or two later someone came to me and told me that they wanted to see me at the Scientology center. I went over there and was taken into the office of a woman in her forties, who asked me how I came to an opinion of their operation. I told her I had read the book, which I hadn’t and that I didn’t find it useful. I can’t remember now how the conversation went but at some point she leaped out of her seat and screamed at me, “You are a suppressive! Get out of here!” She was trembling. I was astonished. I left. Over the course of the next several days, no less than ten people came to me and handed me slips of paper which said, “I can no longer talk to you because you are a suppressive.” I thought it was funny.

Shortly thereafter two undercover policemen were sent into the park to set me up in a marijuana sting. I did not deal drugs. That wasn’t my thing but of course I knew how to get them. When the event went down, I was with John Hall, who later went on to be a founding member of the band, Orleans and who later became a United States congressman. The police later told me that they were informed that I was engaged in drug trafficking by an organization in the city and John’s parents told the police I was staying at their house because they were concerned about my influence on their son, Was I a budding cult leader (grin)? I doubt there was any connection between Scientology and the Hall family. That’s just how it worked out.

Scientology is very definitely a mind control operation and they very definitely go after people. SOTT is not. I know there have been claims of censorship over at the site. I know nothing about that. I know that most organizations usually file commentary when they don’t like the spin. Whether SOTT should be more or less open than they are is not something I would know about. What I do know is that they are, or appeared to be, pretty ordinary people, except for Laura who is extraordinary when it comes to being a researcher and writer and she is right up there with David Icke as far as detailed analysis goes. I’m not entirely fond of some of the things that Icke promotes but I don’t see eye to eye with SOTT on various things either. What I do know is that Laura is a brilliant writer and a great mind when it comes to the things she writes about. She’s a rare bird.

There isn’t any sense that people at SOTT need to be deprogrammed. I know Joe Quinn who is one of the editors there and he is a bright and industrious young guy and straight as an arrow as far as I could see and all of the other people I met at SOTT had their heads screwed on right. They were normal and reasonable and engaging people when I knew them.

SOTT is cutting edge when it comes to putting out the truth about things that are going on. They reach a lot of people and they do a lot of good work. The French authorities should be ashamed of themselves and we should keep in mind how far the Satanic pedophilia operations exist up the ladder in the more powerful circles of French temporal authority. We cannot discount the heavy hand of Zionism there either.

France has a history of being open minded and should keep that history in mind. I’d like to call on everyone who thinks my opinion is worth anything to do whatever they can to stand up for what’s right here. SOTT doesn’t have all the answers and they may or may not be wrong about various things on the relative plane in an ultimate way but the same can be said for any of us.

What it boils down to is that the people at the top of the pyramid are corrupt and their time has come and they are also trapped in the results of their machinations and inefficiencies, as well as their greed and profiting upon the backs of the people and they are lashing out at everything that represents the truth about things. They would be much better off coming forward and seeking mercy before there is none to give. Time is short.

Any fool can see through Laura’s writings and the writings of the people who work for and with her, that SOTT is the diametrical opposite of cult activity. It’s the cults that are behind the push and shove against SOTT. I want to tell you, you fools, whose power diminishes by the hour, that you had better wake up because your time of influence is passing.


End Transmission.......

215 comments:

«Oldest ‹Older 1 – 200 of 215 Newer› Newest»
Richard said...

BRAVO !!!
what a refreshing self analysis of a ' failure to communicate' , and one's -in this case your own - part in the process, including the steps to set it right.

Some months ago, I mentioned the OT - Operating Thetan - issues that may arise with your article at the time, get the guard up brother, in what ever way keeps your Heart light.

What irks the cult type personalities is the constant refusal, on the part of those so tempted, to set up an ego based admiration system. So the same personalities in the rather typical psychopath fashion - see the shrub family - accuse those who resist, of precisely what they are doing. Same-old, same-old. Such a lack of creativity for the 'Grand Chessboard' game, but then again it worked for them so long that the inertia for those in lack of creative juices must be tremendous.

Game Over.
Shiva / Shakti tango is on.

May the Rose Garden of your Heart always be in Bloom, the morning dew reflecting on the petals, in that extraordinary light mixture of the barely risen sun, the starry skies and the moonlight.

Woof woof from the Dog Nation.
Richard

P.S. as coincidences go, the word verification for this comment is 'grachias', so once again, Gracias !, you have earned the 'H', seems to be the message from the electronic process, which is also within the Tao, as all is.

A THEORETICALLY FICTIONAL CHARACTER said...

Alcohol is NOT mind enhancin'. Au contraire, it is mind DEADENIN'. That's why it's legal. It also makes a great enhancement for cookin'. I throw merlot in many o' my stews and sauces, and sometimes I believe I probably leave Graham Kerr in the dust. Then again, sometimes not. (I'm like a mad scientist in the kitchen. Most of the time it works, but sometimes I've got to remember to keep the phosphorus away from the water.)

I like the basic messages of SOTT, but the last couple of Cassiopaean transcripts were rather a waste of my time. I also have no problems bein' a non-vegan vegetarian, (GIVE ME BUTTER, OR GIVE ME DEATH) but hey. Tay without cream is like the runs without toilet paper, bidet, whatever. I haven't spent much time on SOTT, I will have to admit.

Good for you on the Scientology advice. Quite a dangerous organisation, and I also read Dianetics. Waste of time, like you said. And after the first 120 pages or so, it's all repeated stuff anyway, so why is it so bloody long? I know an Ex-Scientologist, and this individual has nothin' good to say about it.

As for time bein' short, I've been bein' rather a bit of a shoite about it. Livin' rather nihilistically and hedonistically, though for me that's a rather solitary thing, exceptin' the beasties on the premises. They've been gettin' fed more expensively as well.

Might as well use the money up while people think it's still worth somethin'.

Inclusive, 30 days to go to the alleged transition day, so why not? (NOT that I'm doin' anythin' crazy like those who were expectin' Harold Campin''s 'rapture day'.) Hopefully this will not be another Hale-Bopp moment.

Anonymous said...

I do not believe meat eating or cigarette smoking is good for you as does SOTT, and I have read enough Steiner to know that channeling is the least effective way to interact with the spiritual worlds, but I am open minded and a regular visitor to their site. There is much subject material contained on the SOTT website that is valuable and thought provoking.
SOTT's intentions are in the right place and they certainly are not a “cult”.

Anonymous said...

nothing like the view from the high road

Anonymous said...

I'll add a there's to the front of that, to head off any misinterpretation

Visible said...

3:o6 but you don't mind if I do, do you. I don't eat meat by the way. I gave that up decades ago.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Theoretical; I am a world class cook and I don't know what's taking so long either. The cosmos is granting extra time I think.

Anonymous said...

While I think that SOTT has contributed greatly to the public's awareness and knowledge of how things are operating on this planet, there is also no doubt that they are a very mixed bag. And I'm not talking about the SOTT website itself, which is informative and useful (well, if you can get past the posts dealing with Laura’s persecution claims that never seem to end). Rather, I'm talking about the people behind the site and things they've done to other people over the years. From the first time I started reading through the Cass transcripts ten years ago I noticed straight off that Laura has a persecution complex. It was there, plain as day as you read through them, somebody was always out to get this woman, and she was always the innocent victim in any fracas. As the years wore on it became clear that my initial perception was correct, as she always seemed to be embroiled in some sort of fighting drama with somebody out there in the world.

Her devoted followers would argue that this is obviously because Laura's on to something, and so the dark forces that run this planet are out to get her as a result. But to that I say, hold the phone, not so fast. Just because negative attention is happening doesn't mean it isn't warranted on some level, no matter how innocent the target tries to portray themselves. When you look a little closer at all these endless fights and dramas that Laura and Crew have found themselves in over the years, many times *they* are the ones who picked the fight first. Yes there seems to have been some truly shady characters that have been out to get them, but in other instances some of the people she’s attacked were good people who did nothing to her or the group. She got a hair up her butt about them one day and that was it, the attack was on. She has been known to switch on people overnight, doing rapid 180s, even going as far as to set people up. Even worse, often times behaving as the very psychopathic persecutor that she’s always claiming to be victimized by. At this point when I come across whatever latest fight she’s embroiled in, with the finger pointing accusations, my only thought is “Pot....meet kettle.”

My opinion is that if Laura and her crew had gone about things a little differently over the years then a good chunk of their current woes wouldn’t be happening. The major mistake they’ve made is to let their ego drive them. Devoted followers believe that what Laura does is for the good of Mankind, but from where I sit all I see is a whole lot of ego driven “look at me!” They’ve made total spectacles of themselves over the last eight or so years. Instead of quietly doing what they do, laying low and avoiding involvement in public fighting, they’ve done the exact opposite. They live in a chateau, loudly flaunt themselves on the ‘net full of egotistical grandiosity, get into repeated scuffles and outright brawls with other people and groups, including lawsuits and legal battles, and in general carry themselves as royalty. They are the shining example of how *not* to go about things. I’ve seen Laura comparing herself to others out there that she perceives as a threat, boasting about what have they done (as compared to her). First and foremost it's about them and their egos looking for self importance and recognition. Disseminating the information and helping the world is only a secondary goal. It’s a pissing contest to see how big and how famous they can get, and especially getting bigger and better than any of the perceived “competition.” And I stress perceived, because some of the people she views as competition aren't even trying to compete with her. But that's more of her battle/fighting/war mentality going on. So had she and the group avoided these pitfalls and took their own egos out of the equation, living modestly, staying off the radar, dodging the fights, and being truly about the service instead of the self, I think the end result would be very different from what we’re seeing right now.

Anonymous said...

And as an add on continuation of my previous post, the back story about the current French debacle is that the disgruntled French ex-husband of a current French SOTT editor reported SOTT to the French authorities in a fit of vindictive rage, making claims about cult activity and other such nefarious doings. Okay, fine, but since when does the angry claim of a lone, jilted ex-husband unleash the level of response that is apparently being directed at SOTT by the French authorities? If it seems a little extreme and strange it's probably because there's a little bit more going on than just regular persecution. It's very likely that Laura’s karmic vulnerability is being exploited for the reasons mentioned in my previous posting. Had she and the group gone about things completely different over the last decade then I believe that this latest episode wouldn’t be happening. There wouldn't be that vulnerability to exploit. One thing has been made abundantly clear to me over time and that is that Laura secretly enjoys the conflict and fighting, and she has a need to be seen as the poor, innocent, persecuted victim. Somebody who truly doesn’t enjoy battles doesn’t repeatedly find themselves in the middle of them. That’s just common sense. And I’ve seen how she relishes having fans fawn over her, hearing all of their ego stroking sympathetic “poor you!” reassurances. Her endless fights provide that opportunity. If the fights stop, then the adoration, sympathy and attention would stop.

It’s a shame because as Les has noted, she’s a brilliant mind. But it was a mind that was derailed by a massive ego.

amarynth said...

I am not a SOTT fan whatsoever but in principle, it feels like the time to support the 'voices' that we have out there. David Icke is doing brave and good work. He has my support. Michael Tsarion is doing amazing research and is an engaging speaker - he has my support. Tom of Montalk's Gnosis series is truly eye opening. Clif High's work is impressive. There are many good 'voices'. We need those and most of those are humble enough to say clearly that they do not have all of the truth and brave enough to tell what they do know. And whether one supports this type of action or not, it is impressive what the folks are doing at Occupy Wall Street. 60 Cities now have 'occupying forces' for the good of humanity. I 'see' strange things about this movement when I look at it and I hope that they walk out of there with their asses intact eventually. This all to me seems to be part of the current change ...

Visible said...

Amarynth; we all make mistakes. What if it were you?


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I don't know that Laura has a massive ego. That is one thing I did not get and I am a very good judge of people. She might be manipulative. Anyone in a similar situation might have the same shortcoming. Let's see what she does now. That would be the cardinal truth.

I am not an apologist for anyone else. I hold people to a strict measure and if I were to look at things in a hard cold manner I might have a different take but I do not have any facts to the contrary. I do have a personal experience of her. What I do know is that people fuck up and Laura is not now what she was when I met her.

For anyone interested, they did not contact me. I did this on my own and it seems the right thing. I could be wrong but I keep asking myself; what if were in the same position? Should I not get a second chance to show what am made of?

That is all I know and her truly scholarly work and her desire to bring out the truth and the way that people I respect respect her is enough for me at the moment. I could be wrong and only time will tell but am willing to go the extra yard.

Anonymous said...

"They’re being accused of being a cult and that is something that they are not, as far as my limited observations can be considered to be trustworthy."

Is that so, Les? Just the other day you said this:

http://smokingmirrors.blogspot.com/2011/03/our-hidden-enemies-who-pose-as-friends.html

"I've had a sudden wave of threats and other things coming from her people and there's no question of where its coming from. I do need to mention it because these people are dangerous. I'm not in any fear of them but they are capable of anything. They've got 'true believer flu' and it makes you deranged.

Scientolgy, which they are very similar to, tried to have me eliminated and was instrumental in my being arrested and sent to prison, simply because I told a couple of young ladies who asked me about them that I did not trust the operation. That's all I did. They came at me with both barrels. These people are the same cult driven types of extremists who look for trouble and then amplify it. I've got no interest in them and never have had."

Anonymous said...

Les, it seems my first comment did not go through. My post at 5:17:00 was the second part of a two part post. The first part is this:

"While I think that SOTT has contributed greatly to the public's awareness and knowledge of how things are operating on this planet, there is also no doubt that they are a very mixed bag. And I'm not talking about the SOTT website itself, which is informative and useful (well, if you can get past the posts dealing with Laura’s persecution claims that never seem to end). Rather, I'm talking about the people behind the site and things they've done to other people over the years. From the first time I started reading through the Cass transcripts ten years ago I noticed straight off that Laura has a persecution complex. It was there, plain as day as you read through them, somebody was always out to get this woman, and she was always the innocent victim in any fracas. As the years wore on it became clear that my initial perception was correct, as she always seemed to be embroiled in some sort of fighting drama with somebody out there in the world.

Her devoted followers would argue that this is obviously because Laura's on to something, and so the dark forces that run this planet are out to get her as a result. But to that I say, hold the phone, not so fast. Just because negative attention is happening doesn't mean it isn't warranted on some level, no matter how innocent the target tries to portray themselves. When you look a little closer at all these endless fights and dramas that Laura and Crew have found themselves in over the years, many times *they* are the ones who picked the fight first. Yes there seems to have been some truly shady characters that have been out to get them, but in other instances some of the people she’s attacked were good people who did nothing to her or the group. She got a hair up her butt about them one day and that was it, the attack was on. She has been known to switch on people overnight, doing rapid 180s, even going as far as to set people up. Even worse, often times behaving as the very psychopathic persecutor that she’s always claiming to be victimized by. At this point when I come across whatever latest fight she’s embroiled in, with the finger pointing accusations, my only thought is “Pot....meet kettle.”

My opinion is that if Laura and her crew had gone about things a little differently over the years then a good chunk of their current woes wouldn’t be happening. The major mistake they’ve made is to let their ego drive them. Devoted followers believe that what Laura does is for the good of Mankind, but from where I sit all I see is a whole lot of ego driven “look at me!” They’ve made total spectacles of themselves over the last eight or so years. Instead of quietly doing what they do, laying low and avoiding involvement in public fighting, they’ve done the exact opposite. They live in a chateau, loudly flaunt themselves on the ‘net full of egotistical grandiosity, get into repeated scuffles and outright brawls with other people and groups, including lawsuits and legal battles, and in general carry themselves as royalty. They are the shining example of how *not* to go about things. I’ve seen Laura comparing herself to others out there that she perceives as a threat, boasting about what have they done (as compared to her). First and foremost it's about them and their egos looking for self importance and recognition. Disseminating the information and helping the world is only a secondary goal. It’s a pissing contest to see how big and how famous they can get, and especially getting bigger and better than any of the perceived “competition.” So had she and the group avoided these pitfalls and took their own egos out of the equation, living modestly, staying off the radar, dodging the fights, and being truly about the service instead of the self, I think the end result would be very different from what we’re seeing right now."

Visible said...

If anyone has a right to be pissed at these people, I do and I say give them another chance. Let it be on my head if I am wrong.

Visible said...

Okay, I just saw those comments and like I said, give them one more chance. Let is be on my head. I believe in fair play and since none of us know the facts entire... look people, there but for fortune go you and I. Let's be bigger than this. One thing we do know, the French rulers are corrupt far more so than Laura and they actually kill people and fuck and dispose of young people all the time. It is a matter of degrees and if aura has been wrong in the past let us give her time to redeem herself.

amarynth said...

Visible, perhaps you got me wrong or more possibly, I expressed myself clumsily.

I simply said I am not a fan, but feel it is time to support our 'voices' - SOTT is part of our 'voices' as far as I think. I have no idea whether they made mistakes or not and if they did, well, perhaps I won't even pay attention as I don't know them well. I just know they are doing good as far as I can see. The material just does not resonate for me - personally.

It does look like the screws are being tightened for control of our thoughts and internet expression thereof. As far as I think, we need to be vigilant and support one another.

Visible said...

You would ask or wish for no less if it were you.

Visible said...

Yes, I agree Amarynth and I am moving at high speed today so maybe am missing things. That is all I wanted to say, thye are an important voice. I don't get the Cassiopean thing either but that part of it is not my affair.

Anonymous said...

I avoid them and all their affiliated websites.

They chose the left hand path.

Anonymous said...

Visible, this is what sets you apart from everyone else. I support your judgment 1000%. Given what they have done to you that is really big of you. Indeed, let them sink or fall hereafter.

R.

Anonymous said...

Hi Les,

Problem is, she and the group have made no move to make amends with some of the innocent people she/they decided to go after. In fact for some she continues to disparage them to this day, years later. Even though their target(s) may not be saying anything about her. And even though they may have proven her wrong ten times over. She won't let it go, and she doesn't admit to being wrong about a target. (Even when confronted and presented with proof for how she was wrong about somebody she will just ignore it and "skip over it." ) Too much ego going on there.

Your situation with her is a little different than what's happened to others it seems. I can understand why you might feel like you want to let bygones be bygones, but what I see is somebody who's behaved very badly towards a number of people out there. Targeting people first, disparaging people's reputations, trying to break up couples by trying to get one of them to believe that the other was an organic portal or "agent," etc. so maybe what we're seeing here is karma at work. That's how karma works after all. You go after others who are innocent and deliberately try to ruin lives, spreading discord and disharmony, inflicting harm and never apologizing or admit wrongdoing, then that eventually catches up to you. I'm not gloating about it necessarily, if anything I'm a little surprised as I was on the fence about the idea of karma. But lately too many groups and people who are clearly of the dark side, or who've been masquerading as good, are going down, and now it's got me going hmmm. Despite what I've witnessed of the people behind SOTT I still don't necessarily feel they're all evil or something. But they're not all good either. I think they started out with good intentions, but were compromised and/or they fell victim to their own egos. And now we're in a time period where masks are being forced off and people who've mislead large groups of people and/or knowingly hurt and targeted others are being dealt with.

Look closely at the work they do. There's a hefty price tag attached to most of it. That's one of the first indicators about where a person or group is really coming from.

I would probably feel like it's a shame if SOTT was forced off the 'net, as I do still find their site useful and interesting, one of the best out there in fact, but I wouldn't feel bad for the people involved. I've seen such bad behavior from them and a complete lack of remourse for any of it, so I for one will not be out there campaigning for them. They are a not a group I would be willing to stick my neck out for. I just feel ambivalent towards them.

Visible said...

I really don't give a fuck, give them one more chance, at least for the people that work for them and thee people that believe in them. If they fuck up again, you have my word that I will not say a word; fair enough?

Anonymous said...

Anyone else see the similarities between scientology and latter-day zio-ism?

They'll both come after anyone who dares speak the plain truth about their respective enterprises.

Mandocello

Anonymous said...

Why don't YOU give them another chance, Les, and let others decide for themselves. Hmmm?

I have no hard feelings toward them, but I give them a very wide berth.

Sovereignty said...

WTF?

Indicative shit of the end times.

"Lingerie Football League coming to Vancouver"

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Lingerie+Football+League+coming+Vancouver/5472562/story.html?tab=PHOT&cid=hot_photo

Visible said...

7:35 I am giving them a second chance and you can mnake yhour own mind up, so quit being an anonymous dick.

Visible said...

sorry, 7:45

Visible said...

Is'nt there a single person here who will defend what I am tryhing to do?

amarynth said...

What action or expression is it that you want to do Visible?

I don't need to give them 'another chance' as I have nothing against them to start off with. I also do not think 'chances' are mine to give or not but can only act(or not) in terms of what comes to me. Anyone in this loose grouping is welcome to ask me for something, if they think I have it to give or if they want to ask. And then I will say if I am able to, or not. All I have to give in this instance, is energetic support, same as what I have toward say ... David Icke, as he is in a similar situation currently.

What else do you think is required here? that I may not see or understand?

It is clear that there are many that are being harassed, hassled, opposed and directly attacked to silence them - but more than that, to make them in-effective in their work. My turn was 2 years ago and it was devastating and is still continuing.

I listened to a talk yesterday and the author suggested that we're going to have to live with this thing for a while and the attacks of psychic vampirism will continue and intensify.

What is it that you want that I can give, more than what I am?

Anonymous said...

From all my experience with psychopaths, I have learned one thing:

AVOID THEM AT ALL COSTS!

Erik said...

Yeah Vis,

I concur ...

...and given your above comments,
you also seem to know why (c;

Anonymous said...

Les - Remember, it doesn't matter what other people think, either in support of you or against. This is your blog, and you're free to say anything you'd like and to state any opinion you'd like. People can take it or leave it. Don't worry if they don't agree. And don't worry if they do. :) While I don't feel the same about SOTT and have my reasons for why I'm ambivelant towards them, I understand and respect the fact that you are more forgiving towards them. And that's fine. So please understand my criticism against them is not a criticism against you personally or your point of view. Different points of view on a subject are a good thing. You gotta know by now that any mention of SOTT, especially a whole blog post devoted to them, is going to generate a lot of strong opinions from readers. :D But those opinions are not a reflection on you. (no pun intended ;) ) It's people using the opportunity to talk about what they've experienced of the SOTT crew, good or bad, since you've brought them up.

Silent Majority (on a tea break) said...

Les Visible; you ask if there is not a single person here who supports you in what you are trying to do...

You should know that there's far more than that, even; there are thousands of people who do. We are called (for want of a better term) "the silent majority".

Just because you don't hear much (if anything) from us, does not mean that we don't care, nor that we don't support you.

Anonymous said...

Les,

With much Love: Thank You.

I don't always see eye-to-eye with SOTT, either. They have ALWAYS treated me fairly, and I have gotten in with them as deep as digitization across the divide will allow.

SOTT taught me how to eat better. SOTT helped me to see clearer. SOTT, and the drippings I gleaned from their pan, assisted me in the great work of "holding my own eye in the mirror".

I will add that, in email exchanges, both Laura and Joe have spoken of you quite highly.

Frankly, cults don't refund magazine subscriptions when the potential subscriber thinks twice about getting involved with either hand.

Always thought it was better to stick it in a box or cave, meself.

I don't post as much commentary online as I used to. Usenet vs. Internet and all that jazz. One is by MIT Researchers, the other by the military. I'd just be putting on a third sweater kinda deal.

I thought it important to comment here. I think you are correct, Les, and I admire your position. We are (most of us) of the 99%, and in this together. Fried or broiled, fish is fish, and I'll stay in the fin rather than eat the horse-shit being handed out by the blood-guzzlers.

Symbiosis is not parasitism.

I have learned a lot from you Les. As I have from Laura, and Joe, and the folks at SOTT. I don't always agree, yet that is the reason I stay in the rafters of this barn or that - here, I'm allowed to disagree without being shot in the head.

Thanks Les. For showing us all how it's done.

Joey Tavares

Anonymous said...

I think the punch line from "The Rules of Shit" applies here. (From a comment a couple months ago - google it for the whole story)

1)Not everyone who shits on you is your enemy.

2)Not everyone who rescues you from deep shit is your friend.

3)And, finally, if you're warm and relatively happy in a pile of shit....sometimes it is best to keep your mouth shut.

This helps to explain alot of seemingly unfairness.

-Diane

Anonymous said...

Les,
You hurt me, know it.

Visible said...

Jesus, Amarynth, I'm not asking you to change yhour opinion but if we can't be bigger than the shit that gets thrown at us then the shit that is thrown deserves to hit the mark. I just got a hideous email from someone that I could crucify for his own bullshit and I was merciful to him and I could nail him to the degree that no one would ever take him seriously again because he is more wrong about what he is peddling than Laura is. What I am saying is that I cannot take anyone to my heart as a truly close friend who will not, even when they are fucking certain of the crimes of another, that won't give people the chance to fuck up in real time once they were given that shot.

No one here who is passing judgment has been more wronged and wounded than me and if I can do the right thing then I expect no less of the rest of you. Maybe I am wrong and time will be the judge of that but maybe in that small one percent of possibility, I am not wrong or, let's say, giving an opportunity for change, it id poddible thst she will only swell our ranks. If am wrong I will freely admit it. What is a little more time going to cost any of you?

Visible said...

Boy are people jumping on me. You should see the emails. Important friends of mine who really count are telling me things that I had no idea of but I still say, give it one more shot because if someone is that fucked it will truly show and there will be no reprieve in real time. I apologize to everyone who thinks I was off the wall. I was trying to do the right thing.

Anonymous said...

If I understand the whole case of the LKJ's group and these entities SOTT / Cassiopaea / QFS are under investigation because a father, a mother and two children were under their control.
And you speak only of Laura ... She's worth more than four people?

Anonymous said...

Les I think you should maybe consider that you have read SOTT's version of the story, a group who has repeatedly lied, exaggerated and twisted things in the past.

I prefer to side with the victim in this story, and from my own intimate experience with SOTT, something tells me it's the French husband of one of the cult members.

I know how SOTT operates with couples, if the partner isn't 'on board', it's game over for him or her.

This time there's little kids involved, exposed to a demon haunted house with regular Ouija sessions.

No wonder the world is such a mess, people's judgment have gone awry.

SOTT is not the victim here. They have just done what they normally do to couples and families, and this time someone is fighting back.

Know Les, that some people reading here know SOTT better than you do, and know intimate details about this case which isn't public knowledge - yet.

Anonymous said...

noble thing to do lord visibles,holding resentment eats away at the vitalitys,I think we all know that anyway even though sometimes it seems real difficult....the truth movement despite its differences has to watch out for itself,I noticed mr rivero posted something up about the sott fiasco aswell,,,,could they not vacate to iceland or somewhere that is going to let them do what they do.....

amarynth love and blessing upon your beautiful self.....

homer I meant to write something about your comment about the devil the other day but was just to tired,like stickman been slaving hard the past couple of days,,,,anyway my take on the story is,polar opposites we all have and are all in some state between the two,,,what I mean with a devil is somebody who purposely embraces evil with full knowledge that that is what they are doing and sets about to sabotage his or her fellows.....we all know that anyway,,,,

us hobbits cant help getting mixed up in bad things sometimes,a hobbit will as soon as he realises his mistake try to correct it,,,,and then carry on partaking in the great adventure that is life......

respects to everyone...neil

Anonymous said...

come on people lets be truth,whatever that may be to each of us here....whatever it is lets be it...


respects....neil

Wullow said...

You cannot understand, much less judge, the SOTT folks until you understand their research and writings on psychopaths. This contribution to society alone has earned my respect (to date). Who cares what they eat or smoke? You can take it or leave it.

Visible said...

People, I am getting hammered by some of my best friends. I don't know what to say at this point. I am bleeding and need to just go to sleep. I apologize for trying to do the right thing and I knew jack shit about anything. I don't keep up on what's happening. I read so little news. I spend about twenty minutes looking around at what is happening before I write a post. Otherwise, I don't know what is going on because get all my information from inside. Apparently Ireally fucked up and I don't know how much this is going to cost. I really thought I was doing the right thing. Maybe I am a loser because every time I try to step up to the plate and go past whatever injury I might have received, I wind up fucking myself.

steve said...

Ayahausca and San Pedro are vast spiritual teaching plants. They accelerate learning and teach beyond 3D. I have enormous respect for these plants.

just me, Laurel A. said...

oh. oh. the people i do not know by face, but by soul, as friends and family, are like fiends, anomolies with their own collective selves. it iwll work out. have you seen what the sun is doing to you, to us? i am just a miserable baby in these things, i know very little, but like the child i am in my soul, i know that you are not in true disagreement. it is a time, a day, the way things are right now. its very tense. here at my home, we feel it, and i dont know what it is either. my littlest one, my sunny rose, is a barometer of what is unseen. she sleeps fitfully for an hour or two, then bolts straight up to her feet and remain in a state of agitation for as long as 9 or 10 hours, around the flipping clock. since friday last week. it cannot be just an anomoly. it is something that is right now, for all of us and we are feeling it, and each is feeling it differently. we are changing. shifting. it hurts. it is supposed to. carry on, and stay in our love.

Visible said...

I guess I did something wrong. So many people are pissed off at me. I haven't really slept since Sunday night. It happens a few times a year. I probably should just got to bed. I hope I can redeem myself. See you tomorrow, if there is one.

Anonymous said...

via Homer..

Thanks Neil, for your words of interest.

Actually, I'm open to both scenarios being probables.

I can see either way or both ways being manifested depending on the circumstances of what God wishes.

Stands to reason God could turn the Devil into a naked nosed wombat just for the fun!

If He wishes.

Ever see "The Last Temptation of Christ?"

I absolutely loved that Judas was in reality the best of all the disciples in that Jesus asks, pleads even, for Judas to betray him that Jesus might fulfill his dharma.

Jesus needs Judas to betray him and Judas begs and cries to not have to because he loves Jesus completely but Jesus insists and so Judas does as asked even though it tore his heart apart.

Wonderful stuff.

Analogous to Lord Shiva being responsible for the destruction of the material creation at the time of annihilation.

That's asking quite a lot.
Beyond our human understanding or imagination.

Though this may appear to be the ultimate act of destruction it is actually the greatest act of dharma possible.

The dharma of the greatest devotee of God.

And please don't anyone take offense as I imply nothing but pranams, gratitude and the utmost respect I know might offer to Lord Shiva and he knows this, if others do not.

Anonymous said...

Forgetting about the pain SOTT causes people personally for a minute, why exactly are they even considered by some as a trusted source in the truth community after this:

http://www.oilempire.us/pentagon-strike.html

And Laura clearly has a messiah complex:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081228155308AAQNJxQ

Messiah complex is a state in which the individual believes themselves to be, or destined to become, the saviour of the particular field, a group, an event, a time period, or in an extreme scenario, the world. This could also be the state in which a group views an individual as a messiah, such as followers of a cult leader. The cult leader doesn't have to claim to be a messiah, but if he is treated as such by his followers, it can also be classified as such.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Published “Ouija board session”on their public discussion forum - 11 June 2011:

Q: (Laura) Well, what was all this spinning about, and what was all this hodgepodge messing around about?

A: Interference. Needed cooperation for grooving.

Q: (Laura) What kind of interference?

A: HAARP-like beamed at you.

Q: (Laura) And how long has this been going on?

A: Off and on for some time.

Q: (Laura) And what is the source of this? Is this a 3rd density or 4th density source of energy?

A: Both. You have been tracked for a long time now.

Q: (Laura) Well, why don't they just bump us off if we're such a pain in the whatever?

A: They can't.

Q: (Laura) Why?

A: We cannot tell you that as it would interfere with mission.

Q: (Galaxia) Why would it interfere with the mission?

A: If you know why you will anticipate and possibly make mistakes fatal to yourself. Let us just say that "they" know that harm to you would result in their own total destruction along a more negative timeline.

Q: (Laura) Well, if my death would bring about their destruction, then maybe it would be a good idea for me to check out, right? Well, isn't that what we want? (Belibaste) Why would it lead to their destruction?

A: Again, we cannot tell you all. But know that there is no chance for a positive outcome for Earth and the future without the presence.

Q: (Laura) So, there's no chance for a positive outcome without me, and yet my death would ensure their total destruction.

A: And all else!

Q: (Perceval) Maybe it's got something to do with balance, ya know? The universe wanting balance. There's a higher power in the universe that allows things to play out as long as there's some kind of balance. But if you weren't here, then this world would be a completely dark, negative star, and there'd be some mechanism that would destroy it and everything associated with it.

A: Yes.

Q: (Laura) That's really depressing though to think that we ARE the only balancing energy... out of 7 billion people on the planet?! (Perceval) The only reason that the whole thing hasn't already gone up in smoke is because some few people are making an effort. It's rather magnanimous of the universe to consider such a small group of people. (Laura) How did we get off on this topic? (Galaxia) Oh, so that's why we all feel so bad: because we're being HAARPed. (Laura) Oh yeah! So is that what's behind our various negative experiences of late that's been kind of rotating around the house like some kind of bug being passed around?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Seriously, one doesn't even have to be an insider to see the dysfunction of this cult...

"But if you weren't here, then this world would be a completely dark, negative star, and there'd be some mechanism that would destroy it and everything associated with it.

A: Yes.

Q: (Laura) That's really depressing though to think that we ARE the only balancing energy... out of 7 billion people on the planet?!"

~~~~~~~~~~~

Good grief! These practical jokers they're supposedly talking to through the Ouija are taking the piss out of them and everyone that buys into it.

A THEORETICALLY FICTIONAL CHARACTER said...

It's wrong that alternative websites are bein' attacked. Alternative websites that do some good? Yo! Activist Post? Well, SOTT ain't no Activist Post, but still. . .

If you want to forgive Laura her short comin's fine by me. I have nothin' vested in 'er one way or the other. I will admit she's not someone I personally want to meet, but THERE ARE GOOD THINGS ON THE SOTT WEB SITE!!!!!!!! Even the not terribly reliable Stuart Wilde has a lot of good philosophies, though I won't be buyin' any of his books. (Not that I even can, bein' I don't exist.)

Now back to my research on NYPD's finest. . .Tony Baloney.

amarynth said...

I really don't speak out a lot on Visible's blogs because he usually says it all and I have no words to add.

But this one? You did not make a mistake! You gave everyone a lesson! But it is one of those that takes time and courage to look at.

I do not know what those folks over at SOTT did. It is clear that some know and others do not know. The lesson though is not that. The lesson is to keep on keeping on! And then, therein lies the rub. If one does the same things over and over again, one gets the same responses. So, the real lesson is the internal change that we need to go through. So that we can change what we do, deeply, change what we are (of course with a whole lot of help and permission from the ineffable), so that we start getting a different result. Because that what we inherently are, has changed. I hope this makes sense.

Sooke said...

I hereby offer support for your stand on the SOTT issue Visible.

With regard to:

"I’m not entirely fond of some of the things that Icke promotes"

Would you share what some of these things are?

Lee said...

Dear Les.

Apparently the topic of SOTT, which is new to me, seems to have caused you a lot of stress. Even some of your best friends and supporters are giving you grief. Maybe you opened up a door that needs to be opened and are taking some brutal punches for it?

I give you credit for being honest and not denying responsibility for your actions like so many of us do, me included.

I did some research on some of the subjects you talk about, namely, the Kundalini awakening.

This answered a lot of questions and doubts about myself and who I am. I also discovered there is a close association with Tezcatlipoca and The Tenoch/Tenochitlan stone writings.

I believe the Tenoch are my long lost ancestors which I can almost certainly say is genetic.

I feel a connection to what you are trying to say. You are trying your best to help people. People like me that need a little guidance in this interesting but, chaotic world.

I would say the majority of your followers, fans, and subscribers earnestly support you. I am certainly grateful and appreciative for the insight and spiritual guidance you have giving me, personally.

Regards

Naj Tenoch ( stone dweller )

AKA..Lee

Anonymous said...

My brother has asked only that you have faith in your SELF(s).

You are not alone my friend and the Universe got to take a bow in front of the devil.

Love,

Ghana

WV: Moondev; you just witnessed the Universe do it to the devil {c;

Isabel said...

Anonymous wrote:
"I avoid them and all their affiliated websites.

They chose the left hand path."

IMO, you are astonishingly incorrect. I have long been blessed to be gifted awareness of those walking the left hand path and LJK & others associated with her most surely are NOT.

In my own experience, Laura is about the most compassionate human being I have ever encountered although I have not met her in person. I too have not/do not always agree with Laura's position or what SOTT presents. Even so, IMO, as a news source, I find it objective to a degree matched by no other source that I'm aware of. Also, as another commenter said, Laura's & others' writings about psychopathy are a gift to those who wish to open their eyes. I rarely have time to take a look at forum activity, but I'm aware that an enormous amount of very valuable, beneficial discussion/information is available there.

As a very experienced psychiatric nurse, I have long directed a significant number of people to the cass psychopathy information - to those folk's benefit. There is also IMO, very valuable information available at the websites that assist people to discern disinfo-ists/cointel-ist/propagand-ists.

IMO, Anonymous, you are creating s..t where none exists.

There has been more than enough info at SOTT about the French husband to clearly indicate that he's a male critter - NOT a man.

I strongly support Les Visible's position vis-a-vis SOTT/Laura. I think Les has/is doing what is right.

I have long said that Life is simple: it only involves doing what is Right. However, doing what is Right is very often far from easy - this because the majority "go with the flow" which too often is NOT right action. So doing what is Right makes one stand out from the crowd - not an easy/enjoyable position to be in.

Anonymous said...

pierre said.. sitting on the fence on the other side of the world

bigger fish for the police to fry I would think, particularly without (as far as we know) any heinous crimes being comitted. French DU spread over Libya, for instance.

does SOTT & Co. pay taxes. If so, they fail cult law #1 . (ask the Churches)

can't take them off the net, tell them to go to TOR. maybe less people will go there for now but TOR and its successors will be the way as the boot straps come down.

..pierre

wv: elemozi. Italian Tesla says so Edison, Its elemozi (DC) my dear Wattson (AC), my dream told me. Wattsamatta, Wattsamatta!

questioning said...

Don't take it too personally man. A LOT of people got reamed out and royally screwed by that particular group. Mainly in the sense that they got a World-Class mind-fucking as they were booted out the door(Not even gonna touch the other aspects). You don't seem to have ever been subjected to those infamous "mirroring" sessions where you become the whipping boy du jour. God forbid you become a "noise" in their "signal to noise" ratio. I suspect you don't know any of the history behind them and you are getting schooled BIG-TIME, (yikes)by your friends who until now, never said anything.FWIW, Namaste, and peace. I'm laughing and praying for you. No worrys man :-)

Laura as a rare bird. Yes indeed, she's pissed off so many people it is breath-taking.

kf said...

I understand what you are defending.

Any other words would be superfluous.

Kathy

Anonymous said...

Greetings Visible.

Still fence building.

Peace and love to all.

Mouser

Anonymous said...

Isabel, you are clearly a cult member. According to your post, you have not met Laura in person, you only peruse their websites and derive your opinion from that.

Others who post here have gotten more intimately involved with them.

They are left hand path. I also fell for the altruistic front that they try to portray on their websites.

Another poster above said it best:

"But lately too many groups and people who are clearly of the dark side, or who've been masquerading as good, are going down, and now it's got me going hmmm."

You can call this French husband anything you want, for exposing your con game.

Just let the authorities do their job.

Anonymous said...

Isabel said:

"I have long said that Life is simple: it only involves doing what is Right."

Isabel, talk is cheap, isn't it?

If what SOTT is doing, is right, then I would happily wrong.

Anonymous said...

"does SOTT & Co. pay taxes. If so, they fail cult law"

Laura and Ark's "church" (Fellowship of the Cosmic Mind) is tax-exempt...

Those lower down the pecking order must refer to those higher up as "elders"!! :D

Anonymous said...

Questioning said:

“Mainly in the sense that they got a World-Class mind-fucking as they were booted out the door”

Quickest way to get the boot is to ask a few uncomfortable questions. Keep your mouth shut and just repeat the dogma, and occasionally express your deepest gratitude to Laura for the fact that none of us would have existed if it wasn’t for her. Thanks to her presence here, earth is not a completely dark, negative star and not destroyed yet…

Anonymous said...

Who are you, the official spokesman of the band?
Know it, I look for a moment how the whole works.
And basically I read a hate speech.
Ranging from "governments are corrupt" to "this guy is an animal."
Sorry but I prefer the animal that ignores the lies and has nothing to hide than one so-called "saint" who only lie and control his little world.
Amidst all this there is the human.
I fear it is a concept that totally missing you,
and where your petty designs and exclusions patterns not prevail at all.

You can not spend your time listen devoutly only one of the story.
The animal in question has delivered a sincere and honest witness, asked for forgiveness.
He did it in his manner, and without a pernicious guru that probably would have been delighted to have this tool to handle the animal.
Laura is the only to have ability is to give absolution?
In his system, of course, yes, since she feels on top of everything. It is easy to see that she does not respect the honesty and uses the weaknesses of people to destroy or capture them.
She always does it so vicious and without warning, in the back, that is to say without ethics.
Sincerity is a precious commodity, those who abuse it for their own purposes are toxic.

The animal made this confession to a person he thought worthy to receive it.
And because this person had a financial value and was a docile labor force for Laura, she was guided to kill (if it was possible physically), the potential danger that the animal represented because it retained its critical sense. The only fault is to think only of his family and not to be a devoted servant of suspicious Cassiopaean's theories (at first only suspect, now guilty).
Indirectly the animal is influenced by C's too, he let himself fall asleep, because he thought it harmless, not really serious, or good (a research group / scientific / how the world works / psychopaths / breathing meditation / healthy foods / all the c's newspeak and affiliates) Sure there are good things, but we must dare to look at how they are used and the purpose, the fruits obtained.
The animal knows over a long period of time how the inner group works, how gradually the followers are led to clean around them and radically change the way they to behave ... He knows to be a wise man and positive, and what he saw is not spiritual development, but a regression to primary stages or psychological problems of the followers resurfaced in pseudo-therapies and are increased, compounded and used to maintain them into a black hole from which they can not get out.
Because they are the belief that Laura is the key to their problem, despite the failures, the sincere believer returns to his mentor deficient. And the situation only gets worse.

In fact at the side of the animal the folder is empty. His confession is sincere and honest and is a proof of successful therapy for the animal to overcome his dark side, and without the help of Laura (that's a shame!).
The rest of what you have heard is a lie, a lame and hard harassment, a black propaganda tool to silence and reduce to the submission of real human beings, a father, mother and children, a real family.

All you can have holy words but they are worthless if you are kept in the most total lie.
If you do not like the term "cult", and although the use of "toxic leader" should be fine.
Now the animals can talk, but what words, if what is missing for all is respect...

cimmora said...

Senor Visible I know nothing of your row with SOTT, nor do I much care...I do care about you though, so keep on keepin on brother. This too shall pass.

I found SOTT years ago. Eat healthy? No shit. Psychopaths? Read it all before (its called psychology!) Casseopia? My bullshit detector says "beep" When I read the channeley make believe stuff, I rolled my eyes, clicked the little X and never went back.

Call me cynical.

Anonymous said...

Isabel said:

"There is also IMO, very valuable information available at the websites that assist people to discern disinfo-ists/cointel-ist/propagand-ists."

Wake up Isabel. SOTT is all 3 these things; disinfo, cointel and they spread propaganda.

SOTT is probably the best example of exactly how COINTEL operates. They sow discord in the truth community on a continuous basis, maligning practically anybody and everybody with some significance.

They also make it very easy for the topic of Zionism not to be taken seriously and be laughed off, because anyone can point at them as an example of a bunch of cultic kooks.

That is EXACTLY how COINTELPRO operates. Exactly.

As for propaganda, care to comment on this:

http://www.oilempire.us/pentagon-strike.html

I guess not. It must be a frightening experience for you to witness a discussion where everyone can freely express their views, without being attacked by the lynch mob in service of 'Laura our Savior!'

Anonymous said...

"Prabhupada: That religiosity also different kinds: rajasic, tamasic, and sattvic, according to one's nature. The sattvic, they worship Visnu. The rajasic, they worship the demigods. And the tamasic, they worship bhuta, preta, pisaca..."

Srila Prabhupada Lecture, Bombay 04-08-74

"Pisaca worship is called "black arts" or "black magic." There are many men who practice this black art, and they think that it is spiritualism, but such activities are completely materialistic. "

John C (UK) said...

Isabel, did you perchance buy a raffle ticket for the house that she 'raffled'?

wv: forse - too easy ;)

Anonymous said...

Re: SOTT--

Life is too short for these internet sqabbles.

Tempest in a thimble.

Take a step back and a deep breath. And now move beyond it.

Mandocello

Anonymous said...

@ Anonymous who posted at 2:02:00:

Good point about the channeling. It actually used to be different back in the 90s. Something that new fans to SOTT may not realize is that the "voice" of the channeling now is NOT the same as the "voice" that one sees when reading through transcripts from years back. It's so noticeably different in fact that I'm shocked that the long time readers haven't questioned it. Though I think that some may not want to question things because then they would have to admit that they've been had.

I actually do think the earlier channeling had validity, and I've sat in on a session so I'm in a place to be able to say that. The voice of whatever they were pulling through back then was a lot more serious and intellectual, dealing with issues that would be impossible for your average person to grasp. Even Laura couldn't grasp half of what they were talking about back then. It was high level stuff. But the recent stuff lacks any new mindbending insights and sounds *very* human (ie, lots of slang and informal human speech) and is extremely dumbed down in how they talk, and when you read the content so much of it seems to serve as a huge ego booster for Laura, reaffirming her importance. ("Mirror mirror on the wall, who's the fairest of them all?" Oh, you dear Laura! The world would completely fall apart were it not for you! You're the lone light on the entire planet and the only hope for Mankind! If you didn't exist all of spacetime would collapse!) As well as reaffirming to Laura who her so-called personal enemies are, some of whom are no such thing. These new C's seem to serve the sole purpose of telling Laura what she wants to hear. This has led me to conclude that the present day C's channeling is either completely faked and is generated from Laura's deluded mind, or, the group is pulling in some MAJOR entity imposters and nobody around Laura dares to question this. (probably for fear of being booted out of the chateau.)

Anonymous said...

Dear Les,
I think I understand what you’re saying and I support that. The first attack against you by SOTT/Laura (and I do believe the possibility is high that Laura was behind it and instigated it) raised my eyebrows. Prior to that, I had reservations regarding them; they were minor things or personality flaws (mine/theirs - none of us is perfect). The second attack on you caused me to seriously look at why I had reservations. I won’t expound here. However, I try to keep in mind that it is not for me to judge; but I can take note. Besides, what was done was not to me, but to you. If you are willing to give them/her another chance, ok. I believe you are being/acting in a “higher” manner. Where would any of us be if not “given another chance?” As you’ve stated, they/Laura will either stand or fall. From things being evidenced on the big stage and in my own little corner of it, there appears to be a sorting going on; and none of us is the sorter. The sorter knows what it is doing. All I know is what group I want to be sorted into. I support you in your decision. My only admonishment is, eyes wise open. Take care.
Serena

Neko Kinoshita said...

I have no opinion about SOTT that I haven't long ago expressed, but I hold no animosity toward them.

If it's karma, protecting them from what is coming is out of my pay grade, if it's not, then my wishes that they not be persecuted or injured are at least good thoughts directed against their trouble.

We all have our paths to walk, and we each have our own lessons to learn. Far be it for me to say whether or not someone "deserves" what happens to them.

So… I'll just quote Don a bit...

"The more I know, the less I understand,
All the things I thought I knew, I'm learning again,

I've been tryin' to get down to the heart of the matter,
But my will gets weak,
And my thoughts seem to scatter,
But I think it's about forgiveness,
Forgiveness, "

Meow,

Anonymous said...

Wall St. police brutality:

http://www.brasschecktv.com/videos/law-enforcement-corruption--abuse/police-brutality-during-occupy-wall-st-protest.html

Anonymous said...

Maybe it's supposed to be that there is no place, organization, or person who has the entire answer.

Put another way... nature's metaphor... there is no perfect food that one can eat then not have to take a crap or piss to discharge the refuse.

Ah...well... I like it better like that too. Keeps me from that folly of human worship or organization worship that people are prone to get caught up in. Look at Cheezuts disciples... you know... how it turned out. I really feel sorry for Cheezuts... like him too, but I don't care much for the disciples. One wonders if there's any digestion going on these days.

SOTT (or anything)... chew, chew, chew... digest... digest... p1ss... crap. Well, there are times when we eat what tastes good, but is not good for us... or we eat a lot of poor food in bulk... only to vomit it up and/or lapse into illness.

Life is a metahpor.

My own opinion is that reading Visible (and reading Cheezuts) is like eating veggies... you know...like they appear out of the ground (uncooked too).

It's wise not to diet too much (or not at all) on that MSM cooked stuff. That'll really make you sick.

Life a metaphor.

Never heart of SOTT until today. I'll try some and see how it goes down. And... well... it comes out. (c;

PoTai

Anonymous said...

laura needs to appologise to all the little people that she has been making out to be psychopaths,when we concentrate on psychopaths it would be tptw that we would need to concentrate on,most people are victims and show signs of negativity on varying different levels..... ,laura is not the messiah,the oija board that she has been using is not needed,although I suspect she uses it as a means to get herself into a sort of mystical state of where she can embrace differing energetic states,,,,,
the only messiah in this world is love which is available to everybody if they so wish....no one can own love, but if they are open,they can be love, even if it is only for a short while.....the great teachers in the past would have been able to engage this feeling for longer periods....
without a oija board or any other weird device.....

laura even though I dont know you or what you have done.I feel I needed to say that,also deep respects you....

anyway thats my two pennys worth....

and to homer much gratitude to yourself,I always look forward to your comments I think you have many teachings for all of us here.....

lord visibles cheer yourself up
you did good and do good and that is good,....

love to everyone out their....neil

A THEORETICALLY FICTIONAL CHARACTER said...

You wrote what you know. What you've been exposed to. As I said before, I personally haven't spent much time on their site, some of it is very good, and a few things don't fribble me giblets, but the site should be left alone. Not taken down. I am against censorship, and like you said; basically the French government ain't no angel. Then again, what goverment is? Seems like the best the world has to offer is Hugo Chavez, Muammar Gaddafi, and perhaps Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

Laura isn't someone I personally want to meet, but considerin' where you're comin' from your post is far from wrong. It's motivated by what you've lived. And there are tons of good philosphies on the site.

I also wonder what's the REAL reason they're bein' hassled for.

Anonymous said...

Yesterday, I was awakened at about 4AM by my wife who was in full blown seizure... locked up... biting here tougue... thrashing and, I thought... dying. It was the first seizure I'd seen.

Then she stopped seizing and, while I called for help, started breathing like in a deep sleep... then, by the time ambulance arrived, started waking up, but didn't know where she was... then eventually (hours later in hospital) seemed to recall most of her world (though not the seizure).

A metaphor? I reminded me about a reboot of a computer. But, now the same programs seem running, though perhaps with a few less inhibiting subroutines (which I expect might return eventually).

Is that what's happening in this world?... at this website?

Reboot isn't always a bad thing, as most puter nerds know.

Leaves me wondering. The reason of it all? It seems to be one of those coincidences to me that perhaps isn't (there probably are no such thing).

I didn't read all of the comments about SOTT and Laura... wow... some strong feelings. I got a little tired of it after awhile.

Incidentally, my wife is ok now... at home on meds... but I am still worried about what might lurk about.

PoTai

Visible said...

I've apologized so many times by now for not knowing what I'm talking about that I really can't say anything else anymore. I was gtrying to take the high ground and it didn't take and I was trying to be a decent human being and that didn't come across. By this time I haven'gt got the slightest fucking idea what am trying to do or was trying to do. I know my point didn't come across and that already goes by the wayside no matter what else is on the table. I figured since there were son many people on each side of the table that if second chances were possible then people had the option to fuck up or transform and I would always like to believe that people would give me a second chance and if I proved them wrong then fuck me.

Everyone is so right all the time. I'm not. I'm lucky if I am right half the time and it isn't like I couldn't be pissed off. I have more reason to be than any of you but I sincerely feel that anyone can change if they will take the time and trouble and I want to give them that chance and I already have my own trouble. So maybe I'm wrong. I have been wrong before and it's on my head if I am.

We all fuck up. We all take the wrong bend in the road on occasion and get way down the road before we catch on to that fact and if we give people the chance to recognize that there will be more of us. Even the devil is turned into an angel of light at the given moment. I've spent far too much of my life judging other people. I still do it. I wish I were better than I am but I am not. If anyone has the right to be offended in respect of all of this, I do so I also have the right to be forgiving.

You should see the angry emails I got. People screamed at me and were vituperative beyond belief. People I've never communicated with in the first place told me they would never believe in me again and cursed me out and I never had anything to do with them before, didn't know they even came around and hadn't even heard of them before until very recently.

What I have tried to do here hads nothing to do with whether people are or are not assholes of malicious or have dug themselves into a hole in the ground. It has nothing to do with that. It has to do with giving people a chance to transform. If I was off the wall and didn't have very many facts and I admit that most of all of this I hadn't run into before, then that is the fault of my general ignorance but my heart was and is in the right place. God forbid any of you should rise to a certain level of prominence and fuck up and go begging for understanding; not that that is even happening here but I think everyone should take, there but for fortune go you and I' to heart. There's not a single man jack here that is not going to find themselves in hot water at some point. There is none of us that is going to smooth sail our ways through our journey.

continued

Anonymous said...

Laura has developed quite the Christ complex, which is very common in schizophrenia.

The messiah-complex in schizophrenia:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8367574

Abstract:

After suggesting that religio-egocentricity and the messiah-complex may be a universal pattern in the psychoses, this paper briefly addresses three questions. First, in general, what is the relationship between religious emotions and schizophrenia? Second, why is it that the messiah-complex surfaces so often in the psychoses? Finally, what is the healthy dimension of religiosity?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

As for their Ouija adventures, well I feel sorry for them. They should have heeded the warnings of those who came before them:

http://www.victorzammit.com/book/chapter21.html

Whichever explanation you accept - the spirit hypothesis or the subconscious minds of the players theory - there are many cases of psychiatric illness that need to be taken seriously having come about as a direct result of playing with the board.

A Ouija board can be highly dangerous to anyone who is highly suggestible, anyone with any type of emotional or personality disorder.

Dr Carl Wickland, an American Psychiatrist, wrote his classic work on mental illness Thirty Years Among the Dead in 1924. In it he warns:

The serious problem of alienation and mental derangement attending ignorant psychic experiments was first brought to my attention by cases of several persons whose seemingly harmless experiences with automatic writing and the Ouija board resulted in such wild insanity that commitment to asylums was necessitated...

Many other disastrous results which followed the use of the supposedly innocent Ouija board came to my notice and my observations led me into research in psychic phenomena for a possible explanation of these strange occurrences (Wickland 1924: 29).

Hugh Lyn Cayce, the son of the famous American psychic Edgar Cayce, has likewise many case histories of negative Ouija experiences. In his book Venture Inward (1964) in a chapter on Automatic Writing and Ouija boards, he states that stories of people getting into extreme difficulties following both these practices are:

Not uncommon, unfortunately. The frightening thing about them is that they can be duplicated by the thousands from the case histories of present-day inmates of mental institutions all over the world (Cayce 1964).

Warn people away from Ouija and automatic writing until you have learned how to be fully protected. They say that innocent efforts at communication are as dangerous as playing with matches or hand grenades. They have me as Exhibit A of what not to do, for I experienced many of the worst problems of such involvement. Had I been forewarned by my reading that such efforts might cause me to be mentally disturbed, I might have been more wary (Smith 1971).

Anonymous said...

like a beautiful touch
a gust of inspiration
a simplifying dificulty
relieving all frustration
an astounding action
a walk up through the hills
a momentary construction
atunes and fills the will
of wise and beneficient
devout is loving truth
the fumes reveal the majesty
the feeling is the proof
the beauty that surrounds
pushed and drawn within
opening the moment
unraveling like a string

..peace..

Craig said...

Les
None of us know shit! Do not sweat the small stuff. Get some rest.

Craig out

Jody Paulson said...

You sound as if you're under some sort of psychic attack right now, Les. (One tip-off is when people who are normally very clear and cogent suddenly start misspelling everything) Please try to get some rest! To all his loyal readers: please send Les your healing thoughts and prayers. Sending you love and light, Jody

Anonymous said...

Les, I think that's unfortunate that so-called friends of yours went from 0 to rabid just because you posted something that seemed in favor of SOTT. Anybody who would do that is not a friend. Try not to let them get you down. Like I said before this is your blog, and you are entitled to your views and beliefs. A real friend would respect that, and like you said, if they have a genuine concern all they have to do is pull you aside to say Can I talk to you for a moment? instead of tearing you a new one and not even giving you that chance. That kind of reveals an awful lot about who they really are and where they're really coming from.

False friends are the ones who are only nice to you so long as you agree with everything they say and believe. True friends accept that you're your own person and understand that you're allowed to have your own views. Maybe it's time to weed the garden!

Anonymous said...

It’s sad what has happened to the alternative community. Just after 9/11 everyone was all fired up and ready to find out what the hell was happening here. The truth community has been reduced to mud-slinging and popularity contests. 9/11 has become another JFK. Everyone knows the official story is bullshit, but so what.

Watching the Max Keiser report on a “mainstream” news channel, RT, I realize that these opinions aren’t relegated to obscure little corners on the internet anymore, it is now openly mainstream news. Except in the US of A, sadly. The New World Order is openly discussed, and their methods of getting there. 9/11 being an inside job is openly discussed. The Federal Reserve and IMF is openly called criminal organizations. No-one escapes them, from Goldman Sachs to Obama to the guy who sweeps the floors at Wall Street, and it’s presented as a comedy show.

Was it the alternative community that brought this about? Would it have happened without the alternative community? Is the reason that it’s now in the open because we can’t do a damn thing about it anyway? Who knows? Or is it Russia’s way to hit back at the almighty US propaganda machine?

Ooor, is it just that point in time where things are revealed at an exponential rate?

Anonymous said...

All I see when I look at the "alternative community" is a bunch of baby boomers who is fighting off retirement, and fighting everybody else working the same genre.

The time for fighting is over. There is a new energy coming in, an energy of collaboration. You can see it among the fresh blood coming in, where others are viewed as fellow collaborators, and not as competition that needs to be eliminated.

Ben said...

Vis, All,

Originally I was not going to comment, since I thought I didn't have a dog in this fight. I've never read SOTT so I have no idea what they do. I did know from past readings from Vis that at one point they (or somebody in their organization) treated Vis pretty shabbily.

Thus, I was struck by Vis's Petri Dish blog in that he was not passing judgement nor was he gloating over the news regarding SOTT. Vis provided what he knew of the organization and hoped to see SOTT treated with mercy, or at least fairness.

Very often what Vis writes reminds me of scripture and I was reminded of this, from the book of James (who was the half-brother of Jesus the Redeemer):

"Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment."

It means a lot to me that mercy triumphs over judgement... Father knows that were I judged without mercy there would be no hope for me at all.

Visible said...

Hello? Like I said, I'm tired. I saw those mispellings. I was aware of them but I couldn't be bothered to go through the trouble to correct the fuckers. I could see that the point was there and my errors did interfere with their transmission. Had that been the case I would have taken the time to make adjustments but it's at the point right now that any amount of time I put into doing something is just that much time I could apply to not doing anything which is more where I'm at at the moment. I know that probably looks lazy on my part or gives the impression that I'm so out of it that I missed it entirely, that's not the case. I usually read want I write before I post it. I'm just too tired to worry about it right now. Sorry if I come across as indifferent or some kind of space case, I'm I'm just husbanding my time in a way I don't usually have to do but pretty much have to do at the moment. I'll come around once I get around and then again, I just may not come around at all. The juries out on all of that right now, hope that makes sense and sorry Jody if I come across as insentive. I'm just not able to be as careful and considerate as I generally am. For instance, I spent nearly the entire day sitting here or in the park and staring into space, that's not my usual modus operandi.

amarynth said...

You may have missed this yesterday, but here it is ...

http://les-visible.com/index.php/les-visible-downloads.html

If you want to change anything, let me know.

A THEORETICALLY FICTIONAL CHARACTER said...

One final post on this. Les, as far as I'm concerned, you're a better man than most for givin' a second chance. I suppose that makes you look like a Venusian, a Martian, or a Plutonian in the eyes of those that attacked you. What SOTT did wrong or right wasn't the point. What was the point was that you give them the opportunity to redeem themselves. It seems to me that some missed that.

Now, is there somethin' wrong with this concept? And how many who condemn you profess to be Christian? And their philosophy regardin' this issue is???????????????????

(By the way, I am NOT Christian. If anyone accuses me of that, they will be laughed off the planet.)

Hang in there, dude! You seem more self-contained than most. Reflect on that. You, like everyone else is HERE for their OWN evolution.

Anonymous said...

8:47 do you think this christ complex may have something to do with the last parts of the ego clinging on to its own self importance ?.....
I did see something on the community site with an old fellow explaining the ego under a sort of buddhist context a couple of weeks ago,,,am not sure who posted it but I found it a nice simple explanation,I suspect amarynth or erik would know about it,...

anyway gratitudes and respects...neil

Cpt Spadgett said...

Greetings Vis,

I know nothing of sott but I do remember your previous remarks about them. It read this post as holding out a helping hand and if your going to get crucified for that, then shame on them.
If someone can't approach you in an adult manner about there disagreements then fuck em'.

Rest well my friend,

Steve

neal said...

I'm done. That analysis is OK. I miss the empathy, and compassion, and Peace getting one more chance. These things are real, and will get most anyone where they need to go. I don't like this when more need to know better. You can only hold this off for so long.

More need to learn to hold both sides of it, and play with it. The children are alright. And so it goes, as some can just stare, and wonder, wanting joy, and getting lamentation.

Anonymous said...

Canada's Sun TV invited Dick Cheney for a sit down. Sun TV is nothing more than an offshoot for the target 2020 (PNAC) agenda. A terrible creation, it has almost no viewers (thank God), because the majority of Canadians feel the show is insulting to our intelligence.

Check it out;fiendishly cheoreographed. The oil business knows time is running short.

So the night before the dead zone experts ran it, I had this dark dream, showing me Dick is just a literal shell of a man. Before I awoke, in the first vision, Dick's wife kept walking around a huge bedroom that was the size of a palace ballroom. She kept walking around as if trying to find a partner. And she would be hugging people, and if there was a person she liked, would say, "This one is warm".

Ellipser

Anonymous said...

Fuck France, let's just fight each other, that is really a sign of the times. Peace to all, from Minnesota

Anonymous said...

Geesh, what a bunch of anger over what one person thinks about another person...even if those thoughts run to the idea of "giving them another chance" and seeing what shakes out. Sounds right to me...and, if anyone chooses to write whatever they choose to write, whether it be Vis or Laura...that is their perogative & their space & if one does not care for their point of view...do not read it!
The past few days have been unbelievably difficult for whatever reason...call it on sunspots, or whatever. I know that I have not slept a wink & my body is going through such a radical, inner turmoil of shaking & moving involuntarily & energy surging all over my weak vessel & it is not a whole lot of fun right now. Sometimes it is pleasurable, but, not now. Perhaps, many are experiencing the same difficult passage & are simply at wits end & are, really through no 'fault' of their own, attempting to rid themselves of energy that is difficult (to say the least) of integrating all sides of 'their' insides...thus the big whoop. I will be glad to stabilize, myself. Oh, poop, let all of this hoorah just "be" and then let it go. Laura will go on or Laura will not go on & it does not matter one rat's ass what any one thinks. Same goes for Vis. Possibly everyone needs some sleep, some inner rest & to attend to the really important things like giving ones attention to the Divine. And, give Vis an effin break, already. Each has a right to their opinion, but I would prefer the stance of "let us wait & see" and to give some leniancy towards those with whom we may disagree...whatever the "side" that may be. Peace out everyone, please. The drama jest ain't worth it. We have just so much energy & we need to use it in the highest and best way that is within our potential. In love, M.

Anonymous said...

Laura was targeted once her research on psychopathy began to be published. It scares TPTB because it exposes their true natures.

That said, you hit the nail on the head, Les, with regard to zionism being an influence in France and likely in this matter. France currently boasts the first CIA/Mossad agent President in the history of the nation. Let us hope it's the last.

Amerikagulag

Anonymous said...

Vis

A saying I was brought up with follows...

"The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. "

(Define Hell anyway you want)

I don't know what it is with this SOTT outfit that f*cks you up so bad ?

Last time the SOTT subject came up around here you performed a two day striptease of your life.

Seems out of character for you to be honest. But I guess I don't really know anything about you except what I read.

I've heard you state before that other peoples opinion of you is irrelivant. Seems like a sound line of reasoning.

Apparently everything is under control and it's all just for demonstration purposes. Go figure.

Patrick V1.0

Anonymous said...

And she just recently did an article on the 'world's most dangerous cult' pointing directly to the judao/christian cult. For that I'm grateful because articles like that are what keep the dogs at bay and the masses thinking..

I'm not a fan of channeling so I tend to avoid the whole Caseo corner. What I have read on their site has intrigued me, stimulated me, angered me and enriched me. Personalities aside I can take the good with the bad.

Amerikagulag

Erik said...

Well Vis,

I don't know 'naught' about SOTT, and i do not intend to find out ...

Your utter 'nakedness' however, made me recognize the futility of an actual tiff i had with someone else here ... and start making amends (c;

Hmm, i have a funny feeling you knew this already ... so thanks for the lesson brother ;)

It looks like something caused a lot of us to be anxious, which made me wonder about sunspots ... now are they a cause or (just) a reflection ...?

Visible said...

Okay, I had a night's rest and Ding City is in the rear view mirror, although I probably still need another night yet or more likely a year, given the shit I sloughed through to get to this point but we can sleep when we're dead.

Meanwhile other things are now feeding my permanently altered state, so the merry go round continues and god willing, I won't wind up in Hunter Thompson land or take the wrong exit to Freak City (grin). On the positive side, I am a seasoned traveler of the, "Don't try this yourself at home" variety.

As for any public strip teases on my part, 99% of you should only wish you looked as good as I do with my clothes off at my age, literally and figuratively. I'm not the sort of person to be obsessed with performance theater in a dirty laundry. I make mistakes as I go and I, mostly, learn from them, am sorry, try to make amends and don't hide the inconsistencies in my nature. Be aware that I have the capacity to be a very clever fellow and could hide things about myself and present all kinds of public faces if I chose to. Acting is probably one of my chief talents but I don't work that side of the highway, I consider it deceptive and no matter how clever we think we are, eventually we get exposed at some point so it has been my nature to expose myself to begin with, with the occasional sheilding of certain private moments, which don't happen to be anyone else's business anyway and aren't that important in any case.

I know there are people that would prefer that I was steady as a rock and iconic in representation of our common beliefs and disciplines. In some ways I am solid as a rock and in other cases I'm not and only the people I don't respect or admire hide these things from others.

Certain difficiencies attend me. I was horrifically beaten into the ground as a child. I had no childhood that anyone would consider the normal way of things. Part of me is still a kid who was not permitted to grow up and never did. Most of me doesn't exist because any sense of self I might have had was pounded out of me so that self worth is probably an issue but I don't think about it much. Whatever value there is in me is only important as far as God sees me, not how I or anyone else does, so I'm not that hampered by it all that much.

The reason I got the shit pounded out of me was so that things could pass through me with greater ease and the reader can be the judge of what value that contains for them.

Not only haven't I had much success with my creative efforts (unless you count what is happening in recent time and which ain't much word wise) but my creative endeavors were murdered on the ground. My music was releasd worldwide all chopped to shit by Bernard Stollman, my book was published without the edits and with the title mispelled all though the book in the first case by Mandrake of Oxford Press, My public performaces generally led to my being arrested and imprisoned on flase charges because apparently I was some kind of a pain in the ass. I've never made any money. I've never had power position or fame. I do have a certain amount of undeniable talent and maybe or maybe that is not a godammed shame.

continued

Visible said...

continuing

I had so many bad breaks that it was a trend. I've been slandered and humiliated routinely and often unjustifiably but sometimes justifiably. I've had my whole world crash to the ground so many times that it is also a trend and only a small part of that was because I was a loose canon, an uncooperative member of this society or a wastrel or defficient in industry or intellect. Most of it was Karma AND the times juxtaposed against the kind of guy I am, the poster boy for the wrong place, at the wrong time, with the wrong message, according to whatever is running this tragic comic shop. Call it the breaks. Call it whatever. It's just whatever it was and is.

Many things are changing now. Many things are, or seem to be, changing for me. I'm bloodied but unbowed, I guess. My work is, for once, showing small signs of a positive uptick. Maybe that will expand and proliferate, I don't know and most of me doesn't care. I don't give a shit about fame and fortune, position or power. I'm steely eyed clear about how much any of that is worth in the scheme of things. What is important is what god think of me and whether or not I can come into the presence. That is my primary interest, drive and conccern, other than being useful, if I can and attending to what comes up in front of me.

If there were anything in this world that I could say I might have an interest in or enjoy it is my concept of a walled garden and the very rare and occasional company of people and beings that I am amused, entertained or informed by. I could walk out the door this very moment and get into a flying saucer or hike into the Himalayas and not look back. The only thing that might detain my intention would be that there was someone who might need my support because they depend on me for something. Other than that, I'm good to go.

Is there anything more I can say? Fuck if I know.

Anonymous said...

I think we should give Scientology a 2nd chance as well. David Miscavige, you’re the man!

We are extending a supportive hand to you in your current time of crises, now that Scientology has had a series of inconvenient exposures.

Yeah, let’s silence all those “voices” and cries for help that’s interfering with your income stream and damaging your reputation. What’s that? Oh, don’t worry, you don’t have to show remorse or repentance, we’re taking the “HIGH ROAD”! YAY!!

Greg Bacon said...

If I hadn't first started using psychedelics about 40 years ago, I would still have my head stuck so far up my ass I wouldn't know what the Sun looked like.

They open our mind and spirit to the REAL world and not the plastic one the PTB create for us peasants to control us so they can dominate the planet and kill for fun and money.

That's why the mind-numbing booze is legal; it clogs up your thought processes and makes you violent and stupid, and easily manipulated so you'll remain enslaved all your life.

Anonymous said...

To laugh often and much;

To win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children;

To earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false friends;

To appreciate beauty, to find the best in others;

To leave the world a bit better, whether by a healthy child, a garden patch or a redeemed social condition;

To know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived.

This is to have succeeded.

Anonymous said...

seems obama maybe close to a mental breakdown or something,a lot of people blame obama for stuff,but he is really only the salesman,if obama is close to having a mental breakdown it shows he does have feelings and may not be a psychopath,just a severely messed up one of us lot that craved the money and the rest of it ......

all obama has to do to get out of these feelings of failure is to tell the truth about what has been going on,as much as he knows,,he needs to know that he will have a safe passage when he does this,,,what ever he may of done in the past that he doesnt want anyone to know,he needs to know that he will be forgiven and will have a place amongst the people again....

and then obama,you go down with the historical greats,,,,,
so obama whats it to be join the people,or go down with a filthy stinking deathcult,the very deathcult that slaved your african brothers and sisters and committed genoside on just about every other nation....

come on obama out you come.....

also intelligence services reading lord visibles site,you know when this rotten empire goes down however many bits of paper with tinfoil in they are paying you,it will soon be worthless...
old world is finished....
also I keep hearing about this pindar thing that keeps turning up all round the world at sacrifices and various other extremely disconnected behaviours.....

pindar remember when you take the tail of a snake,its only a matter of time before that snake is going to turn round and bite you.....

pindar you have failed,at this very moment your energy is being annialated
you stupid whore,,,,,

and I dont mean any offence to all you drug addicted real whores.....your just more victims of a cold dead system
well pindar is aswell,but he or it is real nasty

anyway besides this pindar thing and the rest of tptw...respects to all you people out their.....neil

Anonymous said...

I know that last comment was pretty crazy people,I just felt like saying it thats all.....neil

Anonymous said...

pindar pindar
all broken and wrong
stripped and debilitated
crashed down and gone
by long lengths of virtue
coursing through time
on the vines of the essences
that fill a true mind
pindar pindar
no where to turn
your cold dead heart
in crookedness burns
by concern of all goodness
where true love vibrates
breaks down and shatters
the death cults hate

..peace..

sorry people,I just dont like this pindar thing,so I thought I would write it a poem...its dead anyway
anything that worships death in a disrespectful manner,by my reckonings is dead,and thats that...peace neil

Bhagirit said...

I love your comments on this one, Les. I posted one of them on fb and edited it a little since i was pulling it out of context (hope that's ok). peace

Anonymous said...

Hi Les:

First of all, I do agree that the French authorities are conducting an unfair witch hunt of the SOTT group and no, they certainly are not a "cult." I agree with you completely on that point. I also suspect that the motivation behind the harassment of SOTT is likely invalid and perhaps driven by the fact that the editorial content at the SOTT site and in some of Laura's other writings has been at least somewhat accurate in criticism of French and EU authorities. Further, I suspect that the French government has been purposely collecting and saving complaints by various individuals against SOTT to be used later in any inquiry that is motivated by their desire to disrupt the Quantum Future Group's activities because of their criticism of The Powers That Be. In other words, if the SOTT group had numerous complaints logged against them but were not doing or writing anything that was offensive to TPTB (or TPTW) in France and elsewhere, nothing at all would be happening to them now.

But in spite of all this, there is a very fundamental difference here that makes this story something other than the typical David vs. Goliath saga. In my opinion this is not a classic good guy versus bad guy tale. It is not even a case of the little people versus the powerful. This is not like Netanyahu and the Likudniks vs. the Palestinian refugees on the West Bank. It is not a case of the Rothschilds versus the poor and middle classes in the US and Europe and it is not like the Zio-Ogres versus just about everyone else. No. This is a story of an extraordinarily ego-driven individual managing to create a research group, various websites, a number of self-published books and a smallish faction of voluntarily blinded devotées through a combination of cunning, boundless energy, highly aggressive and shameless pursuit of a thoroughly service-to-self agenda, a history of breathtaking plagiarism and a number of other things of a similar nature.

For those of us who have personally known Laura or have had direct contact with her, it simply does not ring true to classify what is happening to her and her group now in the manner of the innocent messenger just trying to selflessly inform the masses being unfairly attacked by those who hold the reigns of power. There may be elements of that involved in the mix, as I alluded to earlier but there is much more to the story than that.

Others who have commented here have pointed out that the original Cassiopaean channeled messages are quite noticeably different from the more recent offerings and they are right about that. There is a big difference there. The reason for this is that Laura took the efforts of others from many years ago and claimed them as her own, when in fact the original material did not result from anything that she was doing except for being present and painstakingly transcribing the recorded messages. Today's Cassiopaean stuff is so dramatically different in content that it is almost shocking that anyone would be unable to tell the difference unless they never bothered to look at the original material. And even so, much of the content in the allegedly "channeled"
material of today is so blatantly self-serving and boastful as to be comical. Perhaps it is synchronous that this is happening today in the same land where Louis XIV once stated with unremitting gall, "L'etat, c'est moi (I am the State)."

There are also those who claim that much of what Laura has written in recent years amounts to little more than a rehash of the published works of others with perhaps a little bit of her own two cents thrown in.

But what stands out more than anything else in the SOTT story is how so many truly innocent persons have been viciously attacked by them, usually either because they had a personal falling out with the SOTT leaders or because they dared to complain about other things, such as their work being pilfered without permission.

Anonymous said...

lord visibles,you dont have to put them last comments out if you feel they could be a problem,....up to you,,,,,I have no attachment to them other than the initial emotion they were written from,and this pindar thing has got to go....anyway up to you

lord visibles please cheer up,universe loves you

,,,,neil

Visible said...

I don't know much about any of it. I came and went. I guess it was all the useful articles and I did meet some people who seemed okay and just sort of normal and, hey, I wasn't as together as I am now at that time; years bring wisdom if one is inclined to receive it. This turns out to be a ball of confused points.

I should probably just not say anything more. I don't really have anything to do with SOTT. I don't even go to the site in my day to day. I don't go most places. I hit a few and get my view and that's it.

The books that I read from Laura and the Ponerology thing were pretty spot on. Some of David Icke's work is great and then there is stuff I don't copy.

For me it is only about the suppression of informative output by the temporal force that is corrupted to an much greater degree than SOTT.

Maybe I was just being noble and stepping into the defense of people who had spoken badly about me and slandered me beyond any recognition of actual event.

I was trying to be a good guy and came to the defense of something that isn't about the personalities involved in whatever that is and maybe I am pretty stupid to have made it any concern of mine in the first place and I hadn't had any sleep for a bit so I got on my white charger and galloped off into the fray.

The thing is, I'm not as good as I could be and I don't always know what I'm talking about. I'm a work in progress but I am learning as I go. This very day a profound understanding has made its presence known inside my head and I hope I can hold on to that.

Anonymous said...

When Fred left almost a decade ago now (the actual channel), due to Laura’s deviousness – his own words, that was the end of the Cassiopaeans. Laura has since called him every derogatory name in the book. When she and those around her who operate under the same dysfunction decide to ruin someone’s reputation, there is no stopping them. I can just see the foam at their mouths in my mind’s eye.

This is what an ex insider had to say about that time:

http://what-do-you-all-know-about.tk/forum1/message115499/pg182/
After knowing Laura personally via multiple long phone discussions, and working (at her request) on a project together, it is my conclusion that the early childhood damage (from multiple sources) was to create this being/personality who actually is working for the fear-based agenda, however one wishes to define it.

This key energy signature within Laura is apparent by the types of questions she asked the Cs (when they were on-line with her, through Freddie's channel), which ultimately was from the POV of seeking to storm higher consciousness by force, without the requisite transformation required in one's individual psyche.

In other words, she wanted to be the Queen of Knowledge.

She wanted to have knowledge without changing herself.

I pointed out to her that there was an easier, clearer, and purer Source of information: the Path of Knowing.

At that point she banned me from everything, as she is only interested in the path of Knowledge.

This is why she must plagiarize, as all on that path must.

The path of Knowledge is the linear-based, "trying" and "struggling" and "suffering" and "working very hard" (all slave programs), secrets, initiatory, accumulating every scrap and dusty clue from every arcane and hidden source, and Laura's great premise is that she alone is crowned with the mission that she is the only one with the insights and intellect able to piece these scraps into a cogent picture. And she sees this as her gift to the world, and feel she MUST kick hard against all who would thwart that mission or attack her.

In her delusion, she is doing exactly what she thinks she must. She MUST fight ANYONE who challenges her as she sees herself as crowned with this mission.

She is not capable of dropping this idea and exchanging it for the understanding that as we soften and open to it, each of us can (if we seek it out), gain access to a very clear connection with a much, much vaster body of unlimited information, our own clear connection with Source, with is the path of Knowing. This connection brings anything we seek to understand to our mind in each Now moment, as we allow it.

Anonymous said...

continued...

A clear connection requires purification, acceleration and shifting one's pole from the external world to the internal world.

This is an upgrade, an exchange program, but most are too fear-based and can't let go of the familiar to venture into the love-based world of union with Source.

Most are not able to make that quantum leap into this multidimensional understanding of Self, and so they remain limited to the information dispensed by others, which sums up the Matrix Control System.

Laura plays to this audience, although I feel most of her audience come to know her vibration is not pleasant, and so cycle through and leave her behind eventually.

As more and more truth seekers feel the connection to an energy that feeds into the Path Behind the Mind (connecting directly to Source energy) they will no longer have much use for those like Laura who are too fear-based to let go of the path of knowledge.

Bottom line: if the path you are pursuing is causing you to feel fear, anxiety or doom, you are being directed into more manipulation where you are not accessing your innate power to Create, making you controllable.

If the path you are pursuing is opening up your heart chakra daily, causing you to feel more love, and expanding your own sense of Self as Source energy in a physical body, then you are on the path of Knowingness, and you have no need for anyone to "tell" you, as you can directly access any information you desire via raising your own frequency and sending out the intention.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The truth is, I've been single-mindedly focused on zooming out and finding out the truth ... which became pretty clear after a while that it lies within each of us, a vast repository to access as soon as we are ready.

Light is information. Darkness is always about CONTROL of information, and as Laura's agenda to control all thought (allowing no new thought in her forums unless it was just a rehash of her own POV) became abundantly clear, and her ruthless tactics to wound and verbally abuse anyone who dared to have another view were displayed, I saw no reason to stick around.

I couldn't see how anyone supposedly enlightened could also choose to be abusive and just plain nasty, but I learned to eventually see her through the eyes of Source and came to understand.

Anonymous said...

continued...

At the time of my working with her, she was Desperately Seeking Another channeling partner ... someone who could share the Ouija board paddle and come up with something that Smelled Like C's Spirit. Laura just wasn't getting it on her own, and as this was her bread-and-butter, she needed the "goods".

I received an invitation to come to Florida to "audition" my channeling ability in this capacity, and my gut told me this was a dead end ... so I said "no thanks". If memory serves me correctly, this was around the time Vincent was visiting, and he as well as others might also have been given this offer, but I don't know, this is just speculation on my part.

What creeped me out was the black mirror divination that she as into at the time. I saw no need for rituals as this, as my way to get downloads was to just go sit in nature, purify the body, and the Universe opens right up. Again, this kind of mirror-mancy thing vibed like dark arts / black magic rituals, the "storming the gates" thing, right along with Ouija boards, so I was not on the same frequency at all.

It also was upsetting to witness Laura and Ark lambast people who were part of the Inner Circle forum ... almost as if they were laying in wait like a trapdoor spider for someone to put a toe over the line, and then they pounced and went in for the kill as if it were sport to them.

And then the topper was that Laura basically accused everyone in her circle as having a narcissism problem, telling us we should all read Trapped In The Mirror ...
azon.com/Trapped-Mirror-Elan-Golomb/dp/0688140718/ref=sr_1_13 ?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1280538553&sr=1-13#reader_0688140718

Anonymous said...

continued...

Obviously, this was HER issue that she was projecting on to others, just as her obsession with the psychopathic personality was something she needed to balance within herself.

So this added up to clear picture that these two, Laura and Ark, where not heading in the same direction as myself.

And what clinched it for me was her repeated statement in the Inner Circle postings that the very last thing she would ever want to do is to adopt the ideas of the "Love and Light" crowd, insinuating that these ideas where below her brilliant intellectualism.

Well, if she is not about light, she is about darkness. And if she is not about love, she is about hate, and that seems pretty clear in her words and verbal attacks.

So that added up to a non-loving, fear-based, narcissistic, psychopathic, mean-spirited, vengeful wanna-be Queen of Dark Knowledge. That was her energy signature.

So despite my interest in the Cs material, when Vincent published them on the web in their entirety (thank you, Vincent), I had no desire to have anything further to do with Laura or Ark.
Either her ambition was so blinding or her heart chakra was blocked, so the true meanings of the C's words were only perceived by Laura in a very linear mindset, usually in reaction to what she was personally dealing with in her world at the time. She never seemed to get the "global" and non-linear hints the C's were giving. And it seemed the C's were almost laughing at her sometimes.

Sometimes it truly seemed as if she were getting close to catching on but then would ultimately revert back to the same old modus operandi and miss the intended message altogether.

Later on of course, she decided to publish the transcripts in piecemeal fashion, but always with her own interpretation of their "meaning" accompanying each excerpt. And this of course was defeating the whole purpose in my view.

Nevertheless a great many people felt the transcribed responses spoke to them individually and had much greater meaning than any of Laura's interpretations. I think one could therefore suggest that such people were on the path of knowing and not attempting to "storm higher consciousness by force," as you so aptly described it.

Yes, you are right. I imagine that there are many like myself who have found value in the C's work by comparing it and adding it to classic teachings such as Bringers of the Dawn and the Ra Material. These were much more pristine works without the ego of the channeler, something Laura was either never interested in or could never grasp how to do.

SabaiSabai said...

Dunno if they're a cult but they have their faults. Recently, an incident involving one of their forum members named guardian who witnessed a communications technician striking a dog. With LKJ's blessing she published the man's name and the identity of his family. They vilified him both on the SOTT site and the forum and the supermoderators joined in too! This was all before he went to court, SOTT was doing itself what it claimed to be against. http://www.sott.net/articles/show/230068-Frontier-Internet-Technician-Clubs-Miniature-Schnauzer Like any other forum or site they have their blinders on and it will be their downfall.

Visible said...

Well, all of that may well be. I don't know any of those details. That wasn't the intent of my piece, which probably shouldn't have been written in the first place. I'm presently undergoing some changes that leave me confused about more things than I could possibly detail. That's why I haven't had anything to say for a few days. I'm not sure when I will have anything more to say. I'm looking at myself and I'm considering many things and, well, I don't have anything more to say. It's a strange world and a strange time.

Anonymous said...

@ Anonymous 10:13 (as well as your three or four continued posts after that) Thanks for all your insights. They match what I also have come to know from personal experience, as well as personally knowing multiple people who have all been around Laura and were all turned against and thrown under the bus. It's a repeating pattern with her. She can't keep most anybody around for the long haul it seems. I'm one of the earlier Anonymouses who commented on the drastic difference between the earlier C's "voice" and the present day stuff that Laura is churning out, of which you referenced. Thanks for also noticing this. I don't really ever see it mentioned anywhere. It's like nobody seems to notice, or else, they don't *want* to notice.

What's even worse is the way Laura uses the C's channeling to badmouth others. She'll ask them questions about people she doesn't like, and of course the C's always verify that these people are all the evil enemy, telling her what she wants to hear and stroking her ego, then she'll publish these excerpts and transcripts to libel anybody she doesn't like, attempting to ruin people's good names. And some of these people really are genuinely good people. It's sick what she's done, and is currently still doing. This is why I don't feel one bit sorry for what's happening to her. If this isn't karma cashing in on a long overdue debt, then I don't know what it is.

Anonymous said...

pierre said..
forgot to put this in, if I may.

not a bad href="http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/48938article on Zionism, anti-semitism and fascism, as we all here know it.


wv: plotfule, harder for them as they run out of juice.

Anonymous said...

a system thats living
light from afar
the rising vibrance
stirring through hearts
on the tip of renewable
round on the flow
fills up and lifts
lives fully and grows
manifested all things
healing and widening
opening everywhere
wholesome energising
medicine of all things
longs and runs deep
streaks through the darkness
on warm loving peace

..peace..

Anonymous said...

remember lord visibles,love loves you and always will if you let it....

the heart is an extremely sensitive place,we tend to over personalise things when we are shifting away from the initial energy.....

deep respects ...neil

Anonymous said...

Hello Les
You and the flow are one, you know this, if there is a rift in the flow things must be crook, mustn't they?
Seriously - no pun intended.

Anonthy

Anonymous said...

Their actions and behavior shouldn’t come as a surprise, if one scrutinize their chosen path and “teachers” – Gurdjieff, Mouravieff and Castenada … all left hand path individuals.

http://truthaction.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2434&start=210

(5th post from the top)

est said...

-
i don't know about you
but when i wake up

i check to see if i'm all here
arms legs head world check

so begins another day
what will it teach me
what can i say ?

will it matter
who will hear

if i whisper low
in the other ear

if some one hears me
what can i do ?

i'll listen back
till you get it thru

and thank your [favorite entity]
till i turn blue
-

Anonymous said...

Another "voice":

http://rigorousintuition.ca/board2/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=14674&hilit=jadczyk

The Cassiopaea site, driven primarily by the work of Laura Knight-Jadczyk and her husband Ark Jadczyk, has come up quite a few times here on RI. I can understand that, since at least superficially their ideas are somewhat consonant with the prevailing winds on this board, to mix my metaphors. Yet I want to explain why I think most of you would do well to steer clear of the site and its related sites, and more specifically steer clear of Laura, Ark, and their followers.

Some may speculate that it's because of their anti-Semitism. First let me say that my association with the group ended about a year before I read an article by Laura that was posted on Rense--something like, "Moving Companies, the Mossad, and 9/11." The article's implicit anti-Semitism shocked me, actually.

When I was a part of the group, there was none of that. In fact, at one point, Laura claimed to be reincarnated from a Jewish person killed in the Holocaust. Her article was posted about the time that Rense really started firing up anti-Semitic rhetoric, and after I read Laura's article in disbelief, I don't think I was ever a visitor to Rense again.

(Aside: There was a time when you could go there for some really interesting information. I remember in particular an eye-opening article written by a Hurricane Andrew survivor posted years before Katrina, which, if it had been widely read and acted upon, might have prevented the horrible treatment of Katrina survivors; there was some really valuable UFO stuff, chemtrail info, paranormal musings... it was fun for a while, but after that Laura article came out, it really hit me that Rense had changed forever and the party was over.)

So yeah, obviously, a possible anti-Semitic viewpoint is an important reason to be wary of the Cassiopaea sites, but actually that's not why I'm concerned. What concerns me is Laura's incredible ability to explain everything so darn reasonably, to so smoothly bait the hook, cast perfectly, and reel you in, to create a such a fascinating, immersive environment for the susceptible... and I think that many on RI would be susceptible. Damn if it doesn't seem a bit like an ARG, and I'm afraid I may have given her the idea.

Certainly, after I discussed gaming in a post to her mailing list (years ago, understand, and in relation to underhanded tactics I suspected was going on outside the group), she got heavily into game theory. Probably coincidental, but if Laura and the group put together a rabbit hole based on some of my ideas, even if they were just a teeny little part of the inspiration, I feel remorse. Of course, I'm quite sure Laura and the gang wouldn't even remember me, so I'm probably wildly over-dramatizing there.

Nevertheless, I do have personal experience with Laura et al--met them, broke bread with them, rubbed elbows with them online for a year or so and for a week in person. It was... an experience. And I'm glad I was able to deprogram myself before I divorced my husband and moved off to France to join their "school," which may well have happened had I not snapped out of it. And it was reading an article about how cults work that did it.

Anonymous said...

Continued:

I'm not saying it's a cult... I don't know. But I do know that there are many similarities between how cults work and how the Cassiopaea group worked. I'll tell my tale, which believe it or not is as brief as I could make it, and see what you think.

This is going back a few years, now, and my memory is awful--and I've consciously avoided thinking about the whole thing so as not to fall back into the trap. So I apologize for an vagueness in my telling, and please feel free to ask for clarification and I'll try my best. I kind of feel stupid--"like anyone cares, girl!" but maybe it'd be helpful to someone. Sorry if I'm just being long-winded and self-important.

At any rate...

Right after 9/11, I really hit the Web looking for answers in a way I never had before. I don't remember exactly what led me to their site (which even for the time was pretty primitive in design), but it was one of the few that proposed that the events of 9/11 weren't exactly what they seemed. Add to that the fact that I had been seriously interested in the concept of alien abduction, the paranormal, parapolitics, and was also something of a spiritual seeker, and you might understand how the site initially attracted me.

What really hooked me, though, was the profile about her, published in the St. Petersburg daily newspaper and written by a Pulitzer Prize winner. It gave legitimacy to her claims in a way I'd never seen before... it took a rigorously intuitive approach, you might say.

At that time, Laura had what was basically her autobiography on the site, in addition to a wealth of articles on subjects varying from the well-trod to the esoteric, and a book-length work called The Wave Series, I think. I was so intrigued that I read the articles and her autobiography for days on end. Her reputed life story was like a conspiriti-paranormal soap opera. While I remained skeptical (in the true sense of the word) I was also fascinated.

The group had set up a mailing list, which had at that time two tiers--one for newbies and one for the initiated (and I don't use that word idly). The newbies could discuss the material at the site and Laura's husband, Ark, would occasionally answer questions. Then if you had read the Wave Series, you could petition to be granted entrance into the "higher up" mailing list.

So I read it. If it'd been printed, it would've been hundreds of pages, I'm sure. Now, Laura is a brilliant autodidact. She's also extremely prolific.
If she in fact is writing the material herself, she's on a par with Thomas Aquinas (or Steven King) in terms of sheer volume. The Wave Series basically followed her on her intellectual journeys, sometimes touching on some of the material in her autobiography as it related to theories on archaeology, anthropology, quantum physics, morality, ethics, Sufism, conspiracy, Fulcanelli, Oak Island, Rosslyn, holy bloodlines, reincarnation, channeling, lizard people, etc. At no time did she claim THIS IS THE TRUTH AND YE WHO CHOOSE TO DISBELIEVE WILL BE BANISHED TO HELL! Instead, she always presented it as, "Look, this is what I've discovered and here is all the evidence I have at this time to explain it, and these are my conclusions."

Anonymous said...

Continued:

In other words, it was right up my alley at the time. I can't emphasize this enough, because it may explain what came next.

Her writing drew me in. As I was reading this incredibly dense and complex material, I'd sometimes internally argue with it, sometimes openly scoff, and sometimes a light-bulb would go on over my head. I was pointed in some very interesting directions. I was immersed in Laura, in other words, so I became highly motivated to join this inner circle mailing list.

You had to literally petition to get in, by writing sort of an essay, as I remember, about the material and what you hoped to accomplish by joining the mailing list. Guess whatever I wrote impressed Ark enough, because I was admitted. I forget how many members there were... like any mailing list, there were many lurkers and a handful of regular contributors. But it was such an intellectually stimulating group of folks--everyone putting forward theories, putting pieces of puzzles together, sharing odd experiences, and sharing personal triumphs and tragedies.

And Laura was a regular contributor, several posts a day, it seemed. She'd post material that would eventually end up in some public post on the website, but as she was working out her ideas. It was sort of like joining a Beatles fan club and having John Lennon send you his sketches and drafts of his lyrics. She was a celebrity of sorts, and her personality was incredibly forceful.

Maybe you can see where this is going...

So, it sounds like paradise (or it did to me at the time), but this paradise had its serpent, too, in the form of (and I may have the name wrong) an author by the name of Jay Wiedner (?) who she claimed was harassing her. Seems he'd been in on the whole channeling thing right from the start--he used to hypnotize her to get her in the proper frame of mind to channel. Does the site now mention that she did this through a Ouija board? According to her, this guy was probably CO-INTEL and tried to control the whole experience and use the information obtained for his own purposes.

He eventually (again, allegedly, from her POV) took "the transcripts"--that is, after a session, which was tape recorded, Laura or one of her friends would listen to it and transcribe it. There were, predictably, hundreds of pages of material. He claimed, as I recall, that they belonged to him since it was all his idea, or some such, I don't know. Lawsuits ensued, I believe. Mudslinging was the norm between these two... he eventually put up a parody site with much scatological humor at her expense, nicely setting up an "enemy" for us.

Always, he'd float the accusation that Laura led a cult, and much time on the mailing list was devoted to "proving" that it *wasn't* a cult.

There was another enemy, someone named Frank in the transcripts, who stabbed Laura in the back somehow. In fact, after a while, at least half of her voluminous posts to the mailing list involved describing how these insidious CO-INTEL ops were trying to bring her and Ark down, man. It really created an oppositional environment.

Anonymous said...

Continued:

Every once in a while, someone would question something Laura had written, and that member of the group became the target of so much... I'd say "anger" but it was more bloodless than that... "excoriation." The hapless questioner would try to defend him/herself with logic and by quoting various posts that flew back and forth, trying to show that what he/she was accused of wasn't so. Eventually, that questioner would be banned from the list, and after banned, would be subject to much ridicule and scorn from Laura as well as other members of the group.

The posts from Laura, Ark, and everyone else created such heavy traffic that I'd be reading and contributing for hours each day. Sometimes I'd correspond with Laura herself, which was a thrill. I offered to do things for her and "the cause" that were within my professional area of relative expertise. I was immersed, and because it was so immersive, I rarely had time to read anything else or to get an outside perspective on things.

Again, you can probably see what's coming... but wait, there's more.

So, about a year of this goes by. I'm really into the group. Then, Laura announces that there's to be a conference of sorts and that any of the list members could come. She wasn't charging for it--on the contrary, she was able to arrange for very favorable rates at a hotel close to her house in Florida. Since I'd grown up around there and hadn't been back since childhood, since I hadn't been on a vacation in ages, since I wanted to do something that seemed important, I went. Yep, I went and met Laura and Ark in person, as well as a few other heavy contributers to the mailing list and some of the chief "lieutenants." I'd say there were about 20 of us in all.

We shot the breeze, had group discussions, lounged around the pool, and Laura conducted a hypnotic past life regression with a member of the group. That was the first time I'd ever seen that kind of thing--I'd read about it, of course, since hypnotism was one way Laura had made money at one time. (You're probably rolling your eyes even now... but she had a way of explaining it, believe me, so that she was one of the good guys; and it was at her site that I first read about Greenbaum and implanted screen memories, etc., which would make it seem that she was promoting herself as an ethical hypnotist somehow... you had to be there.) Others gave presentations--*I* even gave a presentation, although it was pretty short.

We went to her house and shot the breeze some more. One guy had built an orgone weather-buster kind of thing--I forget what it was called--and supposedly called a storm down us one afternoon. To be sure, there was a terrible storm after he set it up, and in watching the weather reports, it *did* seem to center on the general area... but as I pointed out at the time, bad storms had been predicted that morning, hours before he even set up the device. I got a lot of stares for that.

The conference was held about the time that Laura had begun pushing this model of behavior based on some Christian writer's work. I can't remember the details... it involved something like "A" behaviors and "B" behaviors, and that "A" behaviors were affirmational and energy-creating, while "B" behaviors were negative and energy-draining. Terms like "emotional vampire" and "service to self (STS)" began to be thrown around. My comment about the storm was taken as an example of "B" behavior, STS behavior that should be immediately rooted out from oneself.

Anonymous said...

Continued:

So despite the fact that much of her work was built upon questioning authority, and the group constantly trumpeted this quality as "proof" that it wasn't a cult, apparently questioning Laura's authority was frowned upon at best.

All of this jargon arose partially from research Laura and the group had been conducting on psychopathy (based on works I've seen cited here at RI). There was this other idea, something about certain kinds of people--psychopaths--being "portals" for evil which resides somewhere *else*... I can't remember much here, it was towards the end for me... but the upshot was that if someone around you began to behave in a certain way, you were obliged to separate yourself from that person or you ran the risk of getting sucked in or becoming a portal yourself... something like that. It was heavily implied that most of our mates, those who weren't also in the group, were portals, and that we'd be much better off by separating ourselves from them...

...and if we were good students, and did these things, we might get to go live with Laura and Ark in France, where we could all study together--because putting our minds together made us so much more powerful--and do what we could to combat the gathering evil around us...

...oh, and BTW, we've set up this fund for donations, and isn't the information you get from us worth $20, $50, $100 a month?... and we'll email you personally to bug you about it if you don't donate...

Listen, I was raised an agnostic. I was always a skeptic--in the old sense, in that I didn't believe that I'd ever be able to know the truth, in that I doubted Truth and even "myself" existed in any objectively verifiable way--in that I wondered if "objective verification" itself was an illusion. I was always one to question authority, a quality that attracted me to Cassiopaea in the first place. I was a smart cookie, too--educated, widely read, up on pop culture as well as the world of ideas, politically aware. I was about the last person you'd expect to be in a cult.

But when I returned from the conference, and was seriously considering divorce, I felt an emotional upheaval. Away from Laura and the group, I felt a split between my old self and the self I was becoming. I was at a crossroads, for sure. I began some serious introspection, and, as was customary with the group, I brought up my doubts and feelings on the list. For instance, I mentioned observing some behavior in the group at the conference that contradicted what they thought was happening. It was minor--the group prided itself on egalitarianism between the sexes and believed in the necessity for mingling--but socially, I noticed that when we were all gathered together in the conference room initially, it was pretty much the men on one side and the women on the other side of the room, with some back and forth, but physically there was a divide.

Anonymous said...

Continued:

Well, this public observation meant apparently that I was an emotional vampire, and Laura herself posted that I needed to get in line tout de suite or I would bring the whole group down, somehow. I apparently needed to cultivate more "A" behavior if I wanted her and the group's approbation.

Funnily enough, someone had made yet another accusation of the group being a cult, and someone posted information about cults as a way of proving that we weren't a cult. (Plus there was always the "That's ridiculous--how can you have a cult over the internet?" argument.) Ironically, though, as I read it, it hit me that that's EXACTLY what was going on--or what was probably about to go on, unless I got out.

So I got out.

So in retrospect, what the H-E-double toothpicks was going on? I don't have any answers, to this day. Was it a conscious effort to create a cult? Was it a case of Laura and/or Ark being "handled"? Were they victims of Bluebird or the like? Was it just some well-meaning folks who got carried away?

I don't know. What I've come up with is that the situation at least mimicked cult programming processes. But, I mean, it's no Scientology. It's certainly no Heaven's Gate.

The moral of the story is, I guess, be aware that what might look appealing from the outside might not be so appealing when you're on the inside.

Anonymous said...

Continued:

I found Laura to be quite nice in person, actually--a generous hostess, hearty, with a great sense of humor. She's quite the forceful personality. And that, I think, is what makes for some of the cult-like aspects, if they are such.

And I agree completely with you and LilyPat that the intellectual discussion going on there is far above the norm (or at least it was when I was involved).

I'll just repeat--I honestly don't know what exactly happened or why it happened that way.

One thing, though... she had spoken online in such glowing terms about her lovable dog Percival, I think was his name. Now, I'm a real "dog person," so this endeared Laura to me. However, when we went to her house, it turned out that Percival was primarily kept outside on a chain. I enjoyed "talking" with Percy when I first arrived, but Laura seemed to think I was nuts. I felt bad that the poor fella was chained up outside while all the fun was going on inside.

Further, the day that the one guy "created" the storm, which was incredibly strong, Percy was also left chained up outside. He had a place under the house he would crawl off to, Laura said, unconcerned. I mean, the thunder, lightning, and wind was scary to *me*, inside the house... I can only imagine what that poor dog must've felt.

Thinking back now, something felt very wrong about that situation, and I wish I'd have listened to my intuition.

Another thing that occurs to me... I mentioned that I spent my childhood in Florida, right in that area, but hadn't ever been back since then (that'd be about 30 years), and that I hadn't been on vacation for years. It would make total sense that I'd want to go to the beach for a bit, right? I arrived on the day before the conference was supposed to start, so I took my rental car for a spin and to spend a little time on a beach. When I returned, it turned out that there was some sort of introductory session that I missed.

Later they used this as an example of my bad behavior--that I was basically using them somehow? A parasite, a psychic vampire? Like, because I wasn't contributing to the group or something? I never really understood their argument, honestly, but maybe that's because I'm too STS...

But I do have to say, yes, I learned so very much during my time with the group. And to me, that's the danger--like I said, superficially, at least, it can look pretty darn good. It isn't until you're in it that you realize maybe it's not so hot after all--that is, if you still have your own personality left.

Visible said...

All I can say is holy shit. I don't know anything about any of those things. There are so many intrigues. Life always seems to come down to money and sex and who has the power to perform it and I'm not even after any of that and I not getting any of it either. What to say? I don't know. I met good people through SOTT, we aren't really friends as I consider friends but I thought various people were okay.

Life is kind of fucked for me. I have friends who are far off and people I am working with to build a better life but I just seem to shoot myself in the foot. I defend people I don't really understand or have anything to do with on a day to day basis and catch shit for it.

I have this bad propensity for defending people and supporting people that don't turn out to be who they are supposed to be.

I try to do the right thing, call it encouragement or whatever but so often it always gets fucked up because people want to make money off of it and it always comes down to some kind of money or sex thing and I just want to serve and join in. Either everybody is fucked or I lack good judgment. For me it all comes down to god. I try to work and perform in the pleasure of coming upon the signal moment and I guess I'm just not good enough, smart enough or powerful enough to accomplish the purpose of whatever the fuck I am up to.

I will continue to continue but not for awhile now. I don't think I should have anything more to say. I am working on a posting and so it goes.

Anonymous said...

I accidently skipped a part from the above segment, here it is:

http://rigorousintuition.ca/board2/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=14674&hilit=jadczyk

Every once in a while, someone would question something Laura had written, and that member of the group became the target of so much... I'd say "anger" but it was more bloodless than that... "excoriation." The hapless questioner would try to defend him/herself with logic and by quoting various posts that flew back and forth, trying to show that what he/she was accused of wasn't so. Eventually, that questioner would be banned from the list, and after banned, would be subject to much ridicule and scorn from Laura as well as other members of the group.

The posts from Laura, Ark, and everyone else created such heavy traffic that I'd be reading and contributing for hours each day. Sometimes I'd correspond with Laura herself, which was a thrill. I offered to do things for her and "the cause" that were within my professional area of relative expertise. I was immersed, and because it was so immersive, I rarely had time to read anything else or to get an outside perspective on things.

Again, you can probably see what's coming... but wait, there's more.

So, about a year of this goes by. I'm really into the group. Then, Laura announces that there's to be a conference of sorts and that any of the list members could come. She wasn't charging for it--on the contrary, she was able to arrange for very favorable rates at a hotel close to her house in Florida. Since I'd grown up around there and hadn't been back since childhood, since I hadn't been on a vacation in ages, since I wanted to do something that seemed important, I went. Yep, I went and met Laura and Ark in person, as well as a few other heavy contributers to the mailing list and some of the chief "lieutenants." I'd say there were about 20 of us in all.

We shot the breeze, had group discussions, lounged around the pool, and Laura conducted a hypnotic past life regression with a member of the group. That was the first time I'd ever seen that kind of thing--I'd read about it, of course, since hypnotism was one way Laura had made money at one time. (You're probably rolling your eyes even now... but she had a way of explaining it, believe me, so that she was one of the good guys; and it was at her site that I first read about Greenbaum and implanted screen memories, etc., which would make it seem that she was promoting herself as an ethical hypnotist somehow... you had to be there.) Others gave presentations--*I* even gave a presentation, although it was pretty short.

We went to her house and shot the breeze some more. One guy had built an orgone weather-buster kind of thing--I forget what it was called--and supposedly called a storm down us one afternoon. To be sure, there was a terrible storm after he set it up, and in watching the weather reports, it *did* seem to center on the general area... but as I pointed out at the time, bad storms had been predicted that morning, hours before he even set up the device. I got a lot of stares for that.

The conference was held about the time that Laura had begun pushing this model of behavior based on some Christian writer's work. I can't remember the details... it involved something like "A" behaviors and "B" behaviors, and that "A" behaviors were affirmational and energy-creating, while "B" behaviors were negative and energy-draining. Terms like "emotional vampire" and "service to self (STS)" began to be thrown around. My comment about the storm was taken as an example of "B" behavior, STS behavior that should be immediately rooted out from oneself.

amarynth said...

Two things I have to say and I hope I can get to say them with some sense.

Everything is good. People that went to SOTT and came out, say that they learned a lot - about what is good for them, and what is bad for them. This type of story has been recurring for me - a few years ago we met some people and they were escaping from the Mormon Church - same story, they learned a lot about what is good, and what is bad for them and there are many more such examples.

Defending a principle has nothing to do with the people Our 'voices' are under attack. The question is how to defend the principle, without necessarily endorsing everyone trying to become enlightened? We all make bad mistakes .. the issue is, do we continue with them?

OK, three things then ...

Visible wanting to support a principle and choosing controversial people
My stance, I will support Visible in what he wants to do - as long as my own antennae don't rise up. Here, with supporting these people from a corrupt system, I don't feel we will be supporting the corrupt against the corrupt. Perhaps it will just be a hand stretched out to defend the principle - but to bear in mind that the means never justifies the ends.

I don't know really what right action is in these circumstances but I know if the heart says: "Defend this thing!", it is better to follow the heart. For me, I don't want to be in the crowd that shouts 'crucify them'. But perhaps it is necessary to be in the crowd of jesus the Christ when he overturned the tables of the moneylenders in the temple.

Anonymous said...

Les, you are one of MANY people who walked into Laura’s trap. I also fell for the altruistic front that they attempt to portray on their various websites, but behind the scenes they’re a destructive left hand path cult. There is no doubt in my mind, after my own personal experience with them, that Laura is a psychopath. I have never in my life witnessed anyone who derives so much pleasure from humiliating people and destroying lives. She is highly intelligent and very cunning. I have seen her maneuver her way out of situations where her victims tried to expose her, with such convincing lying and manipulation that it left me speechless.

Their involvement in the alternative community is only for recruitment purposes. There is much more to this story with Ark’s arrival on the scene, given his intelligence background (DARPA etc). Things became much darker with a sudden shift into politics.

This thing goes deep. Interested parties can start with Jacques Vallee’s book Messengers of Deception: UFO Contacts and Cults:

http://www.amazon.com/Messengers-Deception-UFO-Contacts-Cults/dp/097572004X/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1316092523&sr=8-5

It reads as if was written about SOTT. Some excerpts from the book:

“It taught me a serious lesson: such a group can acquire a very significant power over "apparently" rational people. I had not suspected their work could be so fast, or so easy. It was in observing this group, too, that I realized how completely it could control the believers' lives.”

“I am skeptical about "impending disasters", space invasions, and free-energy motors. Rational talk will not convince true believers, however. It is not difficult to imagine a combination of economic and social circumstances under which contactee groups could capitalize on the public's fear.”

"The world's greatest frauds, fakers, and impostors have operated largely along psychic lines... In every age the common people have been deceived not only by these out-and-out frauds and fakes, but also by various other psychic fads." - William Sadler, Physiology of Faith and Fear”

“Such improvable contact, for all I know, may be occurring every day. But contact with what? With genuine beings from space? With some dark part of the human mind, alive with delusions and strange fears? A whole spectrum of human folly and of human greatness had passed before me since I had begun this investigation.”

“The search had led me through several countries, showing me that the idea of contact with Messengers of Deception was nothing new, and that it was capable of triggering fantastic passions. I had become aware of some pretty shady business behind the apparently harmless antics of the contactee groups. Now I wanted to focus my attention on the problem at hand: the question of who was doing all this and what their designs on us might be.”

Anonymous said...

Continued"

“Similarly, French intellectuals regard UFO cultists and contactees as an American aberration. I was amused, therefore, when I discovered that one of the largest Urantia organizations was based in France, as is a branch of the Order of Melchizedek.”

“Beyond the attention of academic science, below the dignity of official history, there are groups, cults, and sects that serve as "leading indicators" of mass movements.”

“I tried to catch him off guard, just once: "What will you say, Major, if I come back with evidence that some nonhuman beings are involved? Will you say that you were wrong, and that the occult groups were right?"

"I never said they were wrong," retorted the Major. "I said they were infiltrated."

“One thing is certain: some techniques used by occult groups have indeed been preserved from the most ancient times. They include excellent operating knowledge of hypnosis, suggestion, the laws of forms, and their use for ritual and behavior control. The ancient art of hypnotic control has been transferred to the halls of academe, where it is used with caution and reluctance in the psychiatry department; but for all practical purposes the awesome powers of the shaman have gone the way of Gurdjieff and Aleister Crowley.”

“The group of people who will first manage to harness the fear of cosmic forces and the emotions surrounding UFO contact to a political puspose will be able to exert incredible spiritual blackmail.”

“Such weapons are less flexibe, but also less detectible, than tanks and aircraft; they represent a more lasting form of control over the lives of men. It takes a long time to bring their effects to complete fruition, because secrecy is essential for them to work. The contactees and the occult believers have been used as puppets.”

“The close association of many UFO sightings with advanced military hardware and the bizarre love affairs revealed in this book between contactee groups, occult sects, and extremist political factions, are utterly clear signals that we must exercise extreme caution.”

“What we often see in esoteric groups is either a picture of infighting and impotent arrogance, or one of authoritarian practices maintained at a high cost to individual freedom.”

Anonymous said...

I noticed someone mentioned Tom from montalk.net earlier. He was also unfortunate enough to get involved with them.

Here's his story:

http://montalk.net/montalkvsqfs.htm

Anonymous said...

There is no confusion Les, please don't agonise.
If you go with the flow, like always, everything will be fine (you've got to this point haven't you?) - you and the flow are one (really, that applies to all of us in varying degrees).
All great people are damaged, dysfunctional, in some way, it's part of what makes them special - you know this.
What makes you special are your vulnerabilities. Me, I'm nothing, have no great gifts, I don't even like people and avoid/shun most at all opportunity; I have minimal upsets.
But you, you are a brilliant communicator, your life must always be in turmoil just because of what you do, who you are. For crying out loud man, you listen to our soul.
The only way I can understand (you) is that your gifts are uncontrollable and the main relief is in your transmissions; we, being the beneficiary.
Believe it, everything is under control.
And thank you, thank you for all that you pass to us.

Anonthy

Anonymous said...

@ SabaiSabai:

This "Guardian" forum member, who's real name is Betsy Ashby, has a few other controversies surrounding her:

http://secret-history-of-laura-knight-jadczyk.info/forum/topic/laura-knight-jadcyzk-and-her-bully-brigade-sandra-brown-ma-betsy-ashby-1

What I noticed from the article you cited, is that their psychopath obsession has reached an unhealthy and irrational dimension.

According to one of the commenters, someone must be sociopath due to his line of work - telecommunications tech...

"After all, only a sociopath would willingly do that line of work."

......oooooookkaaaayyy

Anonymous said...

seems the marines maybe turning up on the side of the protesters,,,this is high quality,know that the people love you for this,but marines watch yourselves,dont get caught out,keep your wits about you,,,,,,also military that are still serving,get yourselves out of their,,mercenarys them bits of paper with tin foil they are paying you,will soon be worth zilch....where would you rather be back with your people or in that cold dark place with all them liars lieing to you,making you kill innocents...generals and high ups in the military,you all made oaths to protect the people,yo need to sort out where your loyaltys are.....
police what are you doing abusing the innocent,,,you have one job to do,arrest the criminals that have sabotaged the country......

all of that military equipment is owned by the people,so soldiers pick it up and get out....

the people are waiting for you

come on,up you get,we can all walk to the beautiful land together

deep respects to everyone.....neil

felt I had to say that lord visibles

Visible said...

It is truly unfortunate for me to have even gotten involved. I didn't know any of this stuff. I only saw the website and what it presented in articles and such.

I don't know if it's a cult but then what is the definition of cult? I didn't get the zombie thing there, just people.

Like Warren Zevon, I guess my shit's fucked up but hopefully it is a passing thing.

I'm going to take some things out of the post which no longer apply and I hope everything works out the way it should

Visible said...

maybe some things at SOTT are not what they should be. My take was about the French authorities accusing them of cult activity and and I met people that I felt were good human beings wanted to act in their defense. What I see is that I don't know very much about what is going. Things are pretty much fucking up all over the place that way now via the apocalypse. Everyone gets a taste.

Anonymous said...

sorry have to say more,
and what about the english people,the irish the scottish the welsh are we not brothers and sisters?,,,theres a beast sitting in the city of london counting out the lives its stolen from us and the people of other continents for hundreds and hundreds of years,,,,,are the british people going to sit their and let it carry on,whilst our good brothers and sisters in america remove their little home grown satan,,,,,

come on,up you get
but this time no letting the kids go out looting,no smashing up the little peoples shops and stuff,the city of london and parliament thats where the beast sits that is where we are needed.....

lets make this world right....

theirs enough food to feed everyone that lives in this world,there is enough materials for everyone to have shelter,there is enough land for everyone of those animals scrunched up in cages to roam freely,and graize naturaly....

the world needs us to remove the beast that has caged us up.....

also the same goes for france spain germany and everywhere else.....

deep respects to everyone...neil

Anonymous said...

it desecrates the halls of washington
deceives in parliament square
savages through the knesset
hides behind internal despair
its clothed in desperation
its want could never be satisfied
it slaved the african people
to the indian it committed genoside
now its lies just grow more tired
they dont work their left in the cold
the old world left in tatters
a new world slowly unfolds
and if the people let it
it will be just like it was before
but a thousand times more wicked
people shackled to hate and false law
it makes war and kills the innocent
sells sex slaves and calls itself rich
I know one thing only
the peoples hearts need to just lift
and when their lifted and focused
that beast thats broken will fall
so come on people of the world
lets smash through the imaginary wall
through the deception and ruin
lets walk through the gates of all truth
brothers and sisters lets ready
your beauty I fully salute

..peace..

neal said...

Vis, I think you have a clear idea, not to argue, but I am worried about you- what do I know?

I was never a fan of pre-emptive psychic warfare, that can never be clear. I don't think forgiveness is neutrality, just knowing that mostly there is waiting for the rest to maybe come around, and trying to stay clear of drama that gets in the way.

The ones that take forever seem to be the first to go. And some of us have to stay here, for others, and don't seem to be going anywhere at all.

Maybe we are all working for the One, and the things that polarize are just holding their current Nature.

I think many here have the scars to prove it, but how many layers of it are required to move on?

Anonymous said...

What a drama this post has turned into. I sidestep dramas; I simply cannot be bothered to get involved. I know nothing about SOTT and I don't give a shit either way because I can't change what they are about. I've had lots of sex and plenty of money; neither mean anything to me anymore. I look horrid naked and I'm only 38 years old.
As for 2nd chances, I've had plenty and I'm grateful for them; and I will continue to be grateful well into 2nd chance triple figures. We're all right and wrong even when the reverse is true.
After reading all the comments here I considered not returning to this site, but I will be back because it took me 38 years to fucking get here and for the most part, I enjoy what I read. Chill out folks, I'm strung highly enough for us all. As I said, I don't do drama... Doh!!

Anonymous said...

I did not read through all the comments here but I just want to say that none of us are here on earth to judge another--so giving another chance when you've been hurt or slandered or whatever is the right thing to do. It is not weakness to forgive or to give a second chance--it is treating another human being in the manner we would like to be treated--it is remembering that we are all connected to one another--and so compassion is always in order.

Les, I think you are brave and kind to give second chances despite being hurt in the past.

Most people's egos will not allow them to forgive. That's the real shame.

Karen

Visible said...

Neal and all. It seems I was a fool to rush to the defense of people that I really know nothing about. It is not the first time I have done something like that. I don't know what to think. I woke up wondering who I am, whether I mean anything and there isn't more than that I can say. I realized suddenly that I was old, didn't have anything and didn't know where I would go if I had to go somewhere. I don't feel old but I must be. I offended Jay Weidner who I don't even know and upset Jeff Rense for saying what I did and you can imaigne that it isn't something I am proud of. I must have turned into Don Quixote without knowing it or maybe I always was him. What I am going to do is just to go back to what I was doing and try to be the best person I know how to be or can learn to be and just take it as it comes. I don't think very much of myself right now but I don't terrible or desperate, just sad so, that's about it.

Ravenise said...

I say good for you in trying to do the right thing Visible, and standing for your own values and morals regardless what other people think or say, and not getting sucked so easily into the infighting. I don't know the details about what is going behind the scenes at SOTT and I don't really care, but I know that everything will work itself out in due time and that this is a test and part of the process of weeding the metaphorical garden and a microcosm of a larger dynamic taking place right now. Doesn't matter what others think. Sending you the good vibes.


"When the Via Combusta is strongly highlighted, there is a feeling of running the gauntlet through sometimes seemingly insurmountable odds, collective karma, booby traps and friction, very often related to relationship dynamics, which are Libra and Scorpio territory.

There's a fire in the Via Combusta and within people with a strong Via Combusta signature that keeps them burning, burning, burning a path through life as you would imagine a shooting star burning an accelerated path through the night's sky. There's a feeling here that one has to keep going, no matter what, through the wreckage of old, crystallized layers that would keep us stultified, constricted and unsatisfied, with old wounds perpetually reopened by a revolving cast of characters.

The basic goal of the Via Combusta is to reach escape velocity."

source

MIH said...

Give what you want, and forgive yourself for thinking you haven’t received it. Stop. The face that smiles before you is also behind, the ground, and inside.

You found you were seeing yourself as them and chose to doubt, and became frightened. And then, this passed.

TaraFara said...

Les, you are such a Love Bug, with a tender heart, and a deep sense of compassion for all of us. Please don't stop posting your glorious messages! Your radio show of August 28th, was the most moving / profound words of encouragement I had ever heard. Your heart was so pure in that message; it made me cry! I listened to it over and over again while I slept. It so moved me that I made my husband and young daughter listen to it. When you asked the question, "do you know what it's like to be a friend of God"? That resonated with me and I don't really know what that means yet. I'm very new to this, but I was touched deeply, and now I don't think I'll ever be the same without my Les Visible "fix" ;->
Love and Peace to you and all here!
TaraFara

Anonymous said...

1 Corinthians 13:

If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.

It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.

When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Anonymous said...

The Christ Complex – Mara Sophia Ellen Weis R.O., ThD.D.

http://www.gnostic.org/articles_teachers/christ_complex.htm

The Christ Complex is a psychological term used loosely to describe any individual mentally fixed on superiority and/or the claim of being a savior. It is not exclusive to Christian thought.
The idea of a Christ Complex conjures up the thought of a crazed psychotic running through the streets proclaiming his crown to the right hand of God, as in the movie "The Dream Team," where a character enters a church, takes off his clothes and tells the congregation he is Jesus. This type of person is delusional with a brain chemical disorder, and is rarely dangerous.

There are many types of disorders in which the Christ Complex comes into play. The worst extreme of this complex is seen in that of a psychopath. Someone that, over time, comes to operate without any regard for other humans. For instance, the most insidious and dangerous psychopaths can become mass murderers or radical cult leaders such as Jim Jones and David Koresh.

However, I want to focus on a more subtle condition that occurs in leaders of spiritual or religious communities which can escape our attention and lead to confusion in those in search of higher knowledge.

The Narcissistic Christ Complex

Narcissism is characterized as a psychological state in which the person has an exaggerated egocentric concern with self and lack of concern for others. Narcissism starts early in the developmental stages of infancy into adolescence. A child whose parents have adored, loved, nurtured, coddled, and encouraged him/her will most likely develop a healthy self-concept. However, the child who was denied this bonding and attention of parents, develops abnormally and carries this lack into adulthood. A healthy childhood involves being noticed as No. 1, being special, important, cute and deserving of love. When most of these things are left unfulfilled, a person can develop an insatiable desire for acceptance and attention. This can lead to narcissism.

Narcissists do not understand a normal relationship of giving and receiving love and attention. Inklings of these feelings that they receive from others is foreign, but strangely feels good like a drug. Quickly they learn that creating a character of false importance in themselves fills their void of affection. They lure others into a web of seduction and false promises, seeking out praise and a sense of power. A narcissist manipulates others, in order to keep them under a spell of control. Promises are often not fulfilled as originally pledged, and the manipulations increase. This scenario is similar to a politician's well-organized, methodical illusion of great "promises" that win the vote. This feeling of grandeur is addictive and must be retained. As people continue to be coerced, the narcissist builds his/her sense of authority.

Unfortunately, narcissistic people often reach high positions of leadership. This can occur in corporations, art societies, universities, anywhere. Though it is sad, but true, spiritual communities are not spared this misfortune. There are, of course, many wonderful, compassionate spiritual leaders who, within their human limitations, grace this world with their knowledge and strength. However, there are those that present themselves as teachers of spiritual ideals, but they have their own self-serving agenda. Narcissists may begin teaching with what they evaluate as good intentions, and may believe that their methods are somehow helpful to others, but truly they search only to satiate the hunger for acceptance and power. A spiritual teacher who coerces others over time into thinking he/she is the superior or "all-knowing" authority is most likely narcissistic. This type of person has what can be referred to as the Narcissistic Christ Complex.
The Narcissistic Christ Complex is an addiction empowered through the manipulation and exploitation of devoted followers.

Anonymous said...

Continued...

It is a type of spiritual totalitarianism. Authoritarian leaders who have both faultless control and power to make decisions over others' lives cause impotence and confusion in the believer. This oppression banishes the individuality of devotees and undermines any spiritual growth.
This Narcissistic Christ Complex is usually overlooked as something other than a Christ Complex.

People with this kind of malediction may not necessarily proclaim themselves to be a Savior, but exhibit a self-importance over others, especially over their students. Perhaps they go about, flaunting their wisdom and being profound.

Sometimes this type of false teacher will display his/her greatness as having special favor with the gods, being the only one with secret knowledge and rights. He/she may praise or reprimand a devoted follower, claiming to be supported by this higher power.
A student wooed by this teacher's intelligence and grace is thankful, feels indebted to give total credence to the teacher for having passed on this divine communication. This qualification and reinforcement of the teacher's actions builds his/her ego, the deception escalates; soon, anything this teacher says is taken as the word of God.

Seekers on the spiritual path all have common goals in mind. We all want to know the great mysteries, and find enlightenment. So, we look for a teacher or a community of loving caring people. We fall in love with the idea of a peaceful, illumined world. Perhaps we are looking to heal the wounds in our hearts. When we find a teacher we are full of excitement. We feel eager. When we find ourselves in personal life challenges, a truly compassionate teacher will offer support and encouragement.

However, some teachers are not healthy and use our weaknesses against us, gaining power and control. Once, a fellow student of mine asked our "master" teacher for advice concerning trouble she had meditating because she had been so worried about ability to concentrate and meditate. The teacher told her only that she thought too much and the least she could do was control her own mind stop worrying him with her little concerns. When teachers ignore our sincerity we find ourselves troubled and confused. They abuse our trust.

Often, a teacher such as this, will set up double standards for themselves. If we should question the teacher's actions and he/she furnishes us with a double standard, the Teacher is a controlling narcissistic. He/she may become aloof. We may even be shamed for our confusion and be required to pay penance for our infraction. If the teacher is thought to be faultless we may think we are learning humility and blame ourselves for not knowing. Public shaming, shunning and humiliation may be a deterrent for followers not to express their concerns.

A maladjusted teacher might advise the entire group to persecute a member who is thought to be a problem. Those who don't conform to and entertain the teacher's demands end up as examples. This can cause confusion in a sincere students. Consequently we become faced with a situation we have put all of our time, money, and aspiration toward spiritual goals, and things go wrong.
When I was a young priest and a mother of six, I belonged to a spiritual community with a hierarchical structure of priests, disciples, and masters. I had the unfortunate experience of being shamed during a spiritual retreat.
I was enjoying the wooded areas of the retreat camp when I was called into the kitchen and ushered into a broom closet by the master general director who was making a halo out of a hanger and a piece of tin foil . With a cocky smirk on his face, he said he was going to make me wear this halo because I was acting so much like an angel. Shyly, I protested. Unable to give me a specific reason as to what I had done to deserve this disgrace, he countered me by saying it was my duty.

Anonymous said...

I was shocked and humiliated. I was a quiet person, always busy with my six kids. You would think I needed encouragement, a boost of confidence, and a well-deserved, very-needed break. Nevertheless, I made the best out of a bad situation. I wore my halo "crown" around the retreat camp and even went to the beach forgetting that I had the tin foil hanger on my head. Others, seeing my halo, assumed I was there to give counseling and that I did.

When I got back to the retreat center, the director was furious and forbid me to speak to anyone.
This experience was one of the greatest awakenings in my life. I saw that he was only trying to keep me guessing. I realized that the director was insecure and controlling, was unable to actualize his truth, and feeding off of the power given to him through the manipulation and humiliation of others. This is not the kind of spiritual awakening you would expect to get from a supposedly Realized Master.
Narcissist leaders can plague large spiritual communities, cults, and smaller organizations such as New Age groups, small churches, and social cliques. All can experience the same poisonous symptoms. There are many successful spiritual groups but not without strife, tolerance and ethical reform. Even the Dalai Lama who is one of the greatest examples of a good spiritual leader, has found it necessary to create ethical correction in his organization.

Honest ethical trust is seldom an issue that is discussed in most spiritual groups because it is thought that it is inherently a part of spiritual doctrine. Although there are some differences from the psychopath, the psychological matrix is similar; the psychopath enacts his deranged fantasies without empathy towards his victims. This lack of empathy in its extreme, involves dehumanizing other people as objects, and the inability to have relationships with peers. The narcissistic enacts his insatiable need for power and control with disregard and empathy for others and is caught up in the dissolution of self importance and power and spiritual groups go awry as a result.

However, Spiritual Masters are not always to blame when a spiritual group goes awry. Group dynamics play a big part in the cooperation towards creating function or dysfunction. This entails the sharing of authority, management of property, money, ethics, and the law of land. Ethics is the equilibrium of foundation in any group. No mater how lofty the ideal may be, seekers often bring their baggage or indignity to the group. If ethical standards are not upheld problems may go unchecked and undermine community competence.

I once heard a rumor about an admired elder devotee of a well-known Hindu Master. The elder had a close relationship with the Master and the elder was considered one of the most spiritually advanced devotees in the group. The elder had many responsibilities as well as managing large amounts of money. The elder became deluded with temptation and misappropriated large amounts of money from the group and lived in luxury concealed from the rest of the organization. When the elder would visit the Master he would wear old clothes and act humble. Undetected by his master, this elder's conning almost destroyed the group. People in the group commented "He seem to have so much spiritual presence, wasn't he 'Realized?' "

Transference and Projection

Transference is often the reason why people put religious figures on a pedestal to be worshiped.
When we are children our parents are like gods to us. We except everything they teach us whether it is abusive or constructive. As a result of our childhood learning we project this perception into life situations and relationships.
Masters, Avatars and Gurus become our heroes like our parents, and we expect them to be all knowing, loving, and true. Even when one of these false heroes abuses our reverence we blame ourselves for our insecurities because it is what we believe about ourselves.

Anonymous said...

Continued:

Transference is a common occurrence in the psychotherapist office, Clients look to the therapist as a guide to help them through life's troubles, but often a client will project their subconscious attachments of the idealized hero onto the therapist.

Therapists are taught how to handle this kind of transference and it is often an important state that with a therapist's help can bring a client to a point of self discovery, confidence and empowerment.

Sometimes the client will feel like they are falling in love with their therapists. When this happens an ethical therapist will generally address this false romantic feeling immediately, encouraging the clients to see the therapist as a person and professional. One technique to help the client to see beyond the projections is for the therapist to share some personal problem that the therapist him or herself has overcome, thus allowing the client to view the therapist as a real person.

Another category of projection is that of subconscious beliefs projected onto others in life situations. People often project their need for happiness onto others while excepting abuse from others. This kind of projection is linked to what we call codependency. An aspect of codependency is expecting someone else to take responsibility for one's own happiness. The codependent experiences life as one disappointment after another, expecting other people to take up the slack and blaming them when things don't turn out right. If one wants to change unwanted experiences one must change on a interpersonal level.

When I was a young student in a spiritual community I had a long-awaited opportunity to go home and visit my hometown. I ran into an old friend who had also been studying in a spiritual community. I always thought of Joan as being a free thinker; she was always investigating new ideas. Joan's father was a hell damnation preacher. To say the least Joan did not get along with her father. She deplored the idea of dogma related to arm waving and praising the Lord.

Joan tried to find her own path away from her authoritarian father. I was glad to see her and with great excitement she jumped at the opportunity to tell me all about her newfound path with enthusiasm. Joan told me how she found a great Sufi Master who had taught her many wonderful things. She herself had just been commissioned as a leader in her group. Joan elaborated every detail of her adventure. I could hardly get a word in edgewise. Then she started to indoctrinate me into joining her group. When I refused she began to decree my spiritual path as being the wrong path. She became pushy, judgmental, instructional, and abrasive. I could not believe what I was hearing. Joan had become her father. Even when we find a new path the old one will seep through the cracks of our projections.
When transference happens in a student- spiritual teacher relationship and the spiritual master is psychologically unhealthy, deleterious relationships and activities can evolve.

In a direct antipode of the victims experience, the false master vampires the student, receiving and almost euphoric rush of power and self importance. If the spiritual teacher is narcissistic, or untrained and unprepared, the false teacher may become addicted to the power and elation received from adoring followers.
Spiritual leaders are people in bodies living their lives and devoting their time like everyone else. Truly enlightened Masters are generally prepared, knowledgeable wise, and ethical. But false teachers who do not have the qualities of wisdom ethics and realization may give in to temptation and hazardous self-indulgence.

Anonymous said...

Continued:

Spiritual abuse is one of the most insidious crimes anyone can survive. I once worked with a young person who had been involved in a abusive spiritual group through her parents. She had the same symptoms as a person surviving sexual abuse. She explained that it was as if the spiritual leader had molested her soul. She described her bad experiences as having a yucky, dirty feeling whenever the spiritual leader was around, even though she had never been physically touched. These feelings are identical to many sexual survivors experiences when remembering their abusers. Soul molestation is an adequate description for those who have been abused at the core of their being. When someone has been spiritually abused it creates a hopelessness and fear of the world and can lead to paranoia depression isolation and bad health.

Spirituality is the untapped potential beyond the subconscious, the spirit of awareness itself. This spiritual essence is realized beyond the mind and can be experienced through a meditative state. The soul is the sphere of one's consciousness.

The psychological paradigm of emergence theory of the inner child asserts (as a friend of mine explained) that the inner child acts as the portal of the soul during spiritual awakening. As adults we view the soul through a darkened glass. But, as we grow spiritually, spiritual development allows us to realize our full potential behind the innocence of the child we once were.

Psychological well-being is essential for the cultivation of mature spiritual understanding. Spirituality has little do with religion and more to do with infinite potential and the connection with the nature spirit itself. Although spirituality can be explained in numerous and elaborate ways, it is the connection to the greater whole. Psychology teaches us about the mind, social expression and relationship. But spirituality embraces the absolute, the higher power, all sentient beings, and the seen and unseen world.

Us and Them

Special knowledge and secret teachings often are the theme of spiritual schools. However when spiritual schools becomes selective discounting and discriminating, about the knowledge of other teachings or faiths, it creates social ignorance and isolation for its members. This secret knowledge is often thought of as having special favor over other teachings. "We are the only true path."

There is no one true secret knowledge. A true spiritual Master will call knowledge and wisdom secret because it is understood only beyond mind, beyond thought, and must be experienced through a quiet unattached mind.
You can go to any book store and find a library full of books on secret knowledge. I suggest buying some books on secret knowledge and reading them. You may find out that much of this secret knowledge is baffling and if you think you know everything you read try taking full responsibility for it, and living it. This is why we need a Teacher. Discipline, meditation, contemplation, and prayer are the antidote to realizing this secret knowledge.

A true Master has the spiritual sight to see how a student is developing. There is nothing new about secret knowledge, its just not merely head food. Our minds are what gets us into trouble in the first place. Real truth lays under the rubble of our own subconscious deceptions. Every true religion or spiritual path has wisdom.

Anonymous said...

Continued:

Why follow a spiritual path? Or what spiritual path should I follow? Or why shouldn't I follow many different paths? Discipline and follow through will manifest spiritual growth and a spiritual Teacher can support and encourage your success towards development and we often avoid or do not see blocks on the path. In this case, the teacher can be of great benefit in helping us move through the blocks.

Following the opportunities that are presented to us are often the indicator of the path before us, however, we need to choose a path that leads to enlightenment carefully. A good choice is usually the most disciplined and rewarding, but we must follow a path and a Teacher that is ethically and morally balanced. Investigate and make your own decisions. If you follow more than one path you may rob yourself of spiritual experience and undermine developing a disciplined foundation towards success.

Many seekers are enthusiastic, but when it comes to disciplining themselves, they become discouraged and look for an easier path. Incorporating other teaching may be okay, but you will find that most ancient teachings connect; there is a common thread running through every true religion. "Truth is what it is an always shall be". All true religions have borrowed from other religions, the Buddhist borrowed from the Hindus, the Sufis borrowed from Islam and Christians borrowed from the Gnostics, and so on.

When you find the path that suits you, practice humility, exclude no one, be reasonable, and if you should meet a spiritual friend on a different path, celebrate what is similar and allow differences. Remember your path is not the only path. The path you share with your spiritual brothers and sisters has its foundation in a common kinship towards spiritual goals. If you are confident and empowered on your chosen path, there is no need to defend the your religious principles against another's faith for all true faiths work toward peace and we must attend to the peace we share with our spiritual friends.

The Myths of Practice

One of the most misunderstood myths of spiritual practice is giving total obedience to The Master or Guru. Sometimes obedience is confused with discipline; obedience is to obey without question, and discipline is to follow a specific plan consistently. Obedience to a spiritual Master is acceptable only under certain conditions and should realte to practice, not your personal life. If you are not questioning the teachings given to you by your spiritual teacher then you may be following blindly.
Awareness is not blind nor can you prove any spiritual teaching without examination and question. Spiritual knowledge is always realized with careful step by step questioning, taking action, and proving. Spiritual teachers usually give us a practice or formula to follow and if we are following with discipline and expectancy, we usually succeed.
The final and most important vow of obedience is to a higher power, and ultimately the powers or energies that be, are divinely orchestrated beyond any earthly teacher. It is archaic to think that being totally obedient to an earthly master will be at all of use to one's spiritual attainment.

Anonymous said...

Continued:

The fact that masters and spiritual leaders have bodies, are exposed to human nature suffering, and old age, is an indicator that the ideal of human perfection should be accepted with careful inquiry. Even the wisest Zen Masters expect their students to follow with obedience, but if that student should follow blindly and naively, the Master requires the student to start over; for even in the toughest schools students are required to practice from their deepest honesty, understanding, and aspiration; obedience is to the inner voice first.

If a Showllin Master asked his students to walk on glass, the students who had faith in their own ability would do so without question. The student being wise to his own limitations, would then prepare himself, toughen his feet and condition his mind? Honor respect and study are a given towards any good and noble Spiritual Teacher. Those who have attained spiritual enlightenment deserve our grateful attention. It is the students who must due the work, be honest in the self, trust the teaching, and discipline the self to awaken to the light beyond the veil.

Another myth that it is misunderstood is that of total self abandonment. This sense of abandonment can create martyrs out of people, and although students may think that they are stepping out of a world of chaos they may be stepping into a life of disassociated behavior. Although it may be the ideal to become detached from worldly things, it is equally important to manage the world around us.

Sometimes this disassociation is the result of being isolated from the greater community. A false Teacher will often require the students to separate from family and friends, and in so doing isolate the students from the outer world. This can be dangerous because people who worship a leader will often follow almost everything in the promise of a better life. This so-called better life often will involve re-programming, like brain washing. Isolation guarantees the false teachers need to control or to brain wash and induce individuals to the point where they are functioning only for the purpose of the teacher, and not for the greater good.

The transformative process of total self abandonment or higher levels of spiritual absorption are for those who are extremely mature practitioners. And you will never hear an enlightened, or God realized Master brag about his or her levels of enlightenment. Before one gives one's mind body and soul, one must first give up one's greed, anger projections and false pride.

The idea of a Guru can be just as much a myth as the old fairy tales of great Kings and rulers. This is a romantic idea and misinterpretation carried over from the eastern teachings to the West. A true Guru is born from a long lineage of gurus. The model of the eastern lineage tradition is suitable for the Eastern Way, but the Western mind and social construct is different in many ways from an Eastern social construct. So when a Westerner or tries to become a guru they can often end up becoming a dictator.
In the East, a Guru is considered to be a personification of God endowed with spiritual qualities, as a deity from a higher world manifest into the earthly world. All knowledge and spiritual teaching is believed to pass through the Guru to earthly beings. In the Western world a Master is an individual who has attained full realization, enlightenment, or as the Gnostics put it, God Realization. This sacred knowledge passes through the masters enlightened mind in the form of an oral teaching or as a transmission of spiritual empowerments to the student.
Westerners should act like Westerners carrying the teachings through their own lineage of spiritual Mastery; this has been a much misunderstood. Although there are many similarities in all the ancient teachings one must be careful not to misinterpret the tradition. This does not mean that a Westerner cannot become a Buddhist or a Hindu practitioner for instance, but that everyone is conditioned to the origins of their own tradition and its actual teaching.

Anonymous said...

Continued:

In a free society in this western world where we have the choice to share leadership, it is absurd to think that one person has all the spiritual knowledge necessary to enlighten the rest of us. In my experience with the director general, he alone made the rules, decided what would be taught and was free to be a dictator of his own will onto others without inspection.

It is ridiculous to think God would disseminate spiritual rights onto one person. Director generals, cult leaders, masters or gurus who think they are the only one with the secret teachings are fooling themselves. Those who have through many years of practice followed a spiritual discipline towards realization, must obviously see these false teachers and cry or maybe laugh, for it is an embarrassment and insult for those who have attained a true level of enlightenment and mastery.

It is with broken hearts, true humbled masters look upon these troubled souls. They see their indignant behaviors perpetrated upon innocent seekers as blocking the door to true spiritual development. Spiritual sanctity can only be attaining through humility and, humility can only be attained through honest introspection, compassion loyalty, patience, and practice, practice, practice. "The Dalai Lama once said I am just a simple monk". It would be better for one to become a movie star, then to use the ancient teachings and spiritual knowledge to make one feel special.
In a book called A Path With Heart, Jack Kornfield suggest some key questions to ask when considering a spiritual community:

"In the spiritual community, are you asked to violate your own sense of ethical conduct or integrity?

Is there a duel standard for the community versus the guru and a few people around him [or her]?

Are there secret, rumors of difficulty?

Do key members misuse sexuality, money, or power?

Are they mostly asking for your money?

Are they asking for your body?

Are you not allowed to hang out with your old friends?

Do you feel dependent? Addicted?

Is the practice humorless (This is an important sign.)

Does the community have a heaviness and an anti-life feeling about it?

Are you asked to believe blindly without being able to see for your self?

Is there something powerful going on that may not really be loving?

Is there more focus on the institution and membership than on practices that lead to liberation?

Is there a sense of intolerance?

When you look at the oldest and most senior students, are they happy and mature?

Do they have a place to graduate to, to teach, to express their own dharma, or are people always kept in the role of students and children?

(This article was written with the hopes of educating Teachers and spiritual practitioners as to the human condition when gone awry with power in spiritual communities. This article is an excerpt from a book that is being written.)

Anonymous said...

"The French authorities" do not act for their own pleasure but because a citizen has to give them the material.
The trick is that when it comes to authority, you are blinded.
Or more precisely SOTT blinds you with this argument. The article on Theinquirer.net is clearly using SOTT as a shield playing on the emotional and brandishing the sacrosanct freedom of speech in danger. And you fall into the trap ... what a surprise!
Of course it is not at all that. Lots of groups are recognized as a cult and it does not prevent them from living. Here it will LKJ in reactions in a hurry and is itself a demonstration of what it is. Is it the fear of scandal or losing the audience? She must be reassured, most readers are already aware that they are a cult and agree with this.

If should there be legal action will be charged with tangible, not touching on beliefs nor to freedoms. Thus the real democracies work is a concept that sometimes you forget. There are laws that protect individuals and the laws that govern the legal action. Nobody does what he wants. If too long LKJ believed she could do what she wanted, well we'll see her far limits. And the first is to stop being in denial, it's done now.

On the second chance. Consider that they have all, at all times. And those who know their true aspects have remained still below to enable them to recover. They were masters of their choice and have failed to benefit. Instead, their actions is a continuous series of mistakes, to believe that they do it on purpose or are pushed in that direction by any attraction for the negative. They have to see if they are determined to continue in that direction. Why try to keep them?

Much attention is given to balance to what is strictly necessary, without exaggeration, considering the fact that LKJ feeds his part with a lot of lies. Attention to it when the truth is restored, it counts double effect.

Anonymous said...

http://www.rickross.com/warningsigns.html

Warning Signs

Potentially unsafe groups or leaders "come off very nice at first, they go for vulnerable people who are looking for answers, lonely, what you'd call 'normal people.' They're very good at what they do and can get people to believe anything. You might think you'd never get taken in, but don't bet on it."
~ Margaret Singer, Ph.D. ~

Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.

Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.

No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.

No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.

Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.

There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.

Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.

There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.

Followers feel they can never be "good enough".

The group/leader is always right.

The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader.

Extreme obsessiveness regarding the group/leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.

Individual identity, the group, the leader and/or God as distinct and separate categories of existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in the follower's mind these identities become substantially and increasingly fused - as that person's involvement with the group/leader continues and deepens.

Whenever the group/leader is criticized or questioned it is characterized as "persecution".

Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly programmed conversation and mannerisms, cloning of the group/leader in personal behavior.

Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought. A seeming inability to think independently or analyze situations without group/leader involvement.

Hyperactivity centered on the group/leader agenda, which seems to supercede any personal goals or individual interests.

A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor.

Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the group/leader.

Anything the group/leader does can be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.

Former followers are at best-considered negative or worse evil and under bad influences. They can not be trusted and personal contact is avoided.

Anonymous said...

Continued:

Ten signs of a safe group/leader.

A safe group/leader will answer your questions without becoming judgmental and punitive.

A safe group/leader will disclose information such as finances and often offer an independently audited financial statement regarding budget and expenses. Safe groups and leaders will tell you more than you want to know.

A safe group/leader is often democratic, sharing decision making and encouraging accountability and oversight.

A safe group/leader may have disgruntled former followers, but will not vilify, excommunicate and forbid others from associating with them.

A safe group/leader will not have a paper trail of overwhelmingly negative records, books, articles and statements about them.

A safe group/leader will encourage family communication, community interaction and existing friendships and not feel threatened.

A safe group/leader will recognize reasonable boundaries and limitations when dealing with others.

A safe group/leader will encourage critical thinking, individual autonomy and feelings of self-esteem.

A safe group/leader will admit failings and mistakes and accept constructive criticism and advice.

A safe group/leader will not be the only source of knowledge and learning excluding everyone else, but value dialogue and the free exchange of ideas.

est said...

-
christ complex

whoever wrote that
i suggest you kick yourself

in the ass- twice if necessary
i can assure you it will provide

more forward momentum
than all that bullshit
-

Visible said...

New Visible Origami-

Something about Precessions and so on.

est said...

-
if you can't say it
in sixteen words or less

is it really worth
saying at all ?
-
17
-

Anonymous said...

The Cassiopaean Transcripts (1994 – 2002):

http://www.metamorpheus.co.uk/

Since 2002, Fourth Way philosophies began to corrupt the Cassiopaean group’s material, and its members – as evidenced by its forum’s increasingly oppressive atmosphere and pedantic exchanges – became more hostile towards outsiders, and more sycophantic towards Laura. As of 2011, the research group is a shadow of its former self, and the members appear to spend more time accusing other researchers of being counterintelligence agents, and seeking data that reaffirms their longstanding beliefs, than actively pursuing new information. I have long since detached myself from their research collective.

When paranoia and distrust start to dominate one’s mind, the world begins to take that shape.

Cap'n Spadgett said...

Anon 2.42

Fuck that was dramatic.

Overall have found this post and comments very educational,

Thanks to all who have contributed in an enlightening way.

S

Anonymous said...

From Take Back Your Life: Recovering from Cults and Abusive Relationships - Janja Lalich and Madeleine Tobias:

http://www.amazon.com/Take-Back-Your-Life-Relationships/dp/0972002154

"A group or relationship earns the label 'cult' on the basis of its methods and behaviors - not on the basis of its beliefs. Often those of us who criticize cults are accused of wanting to deny people their freedoms, religious or otherwise. But what we critique and oppose is precisely the repression and stripping away of individual freedoms that tends to occur in cults. It is not beliefs that we oppose, but the exploitative manipulation of people's faith, commitment, and trust."

Anonymous said...

Testing....

Anonymous said...

I think that one Anonymous woman who's been posting multiple comments here outlining her experiences from beginning to end summed up Laura's pathology perfectly. In a nutshell Laura's a pathological sociopath accusing everybody else of the very behaviors she herself demonstrates. I don't know how her devotees don't see this. Maybe because they haven't yet found themselves in her crosshairs. Laura is that overweight bully ringleader girl from the grade school playground that spends all of her time getting the kids around her to go after the other kids on the playground she doesn't like, utilizing lies and making sure nobody's allowed to make up their own mind about somebody. You have to take her word for everything, and if you dare cross her and try to be friends with somebody she's put on the shit list than you'll be the next one ostracized, as all the kids are suddenly targeting you now and it's your turn to be in the crosshairs. Meanwhile, her endless list of targets serves as a distraction so that nobody ever stops and starts really taking a close look at her. Keep everybody distracted by her pointing finger. Over there! He's COINTELPRO! Over there! She's the Organic Portal agent! Over there! They're psychopathic narcissists! Over there over there over there! Don't look at me! Look at her! Look at him! Look at them!

The one question or issue I'm left with is, *How did this woman ever get to that level of power to wreak THAT much havoc on people's lives??* For instance, last year a guy from Europe was visiting us and he used to be affiliated with the SOTT/Cass group for a short bit, and he was also thrown under the bus by them as it turned out. He's a good guy, and what struck me was how to that day he still had trouble getting over what was done to him. It hurt, and it was frustrating, and it was unfair and it still left him reeling a little bit trying to come to terms with how quickly they turned on him, going from super nice and friendly and warm, to cold, cunning and devious. So, we spent a little bit of time talking about that, as he needed somebody he could bounce things off of. But this is a pattern. It's not just him. And it's left me wondering how in the heck this woman managed to get to the level she has, to be able to wreak *that* much emotional havoc on so many people. There's that famous phrase - With great power comes great responsibility. Well, Laura obviously never got that memo, because she's let her power get to her head and has behaved very recklessly with many people's lives, everything from trying to break up couples to making dangerous and false accusations against people, unnecessarily getting them on the radar of the government. I know of people who walked away from their lives in the States to move to France to be with her and the group, only to have her turn on them for no good reason after they got there. Now what? Now they're stuck in Europe.

She plays with people's lives, going as far as to publish fake "C's" channeling that tarnishes people's reputations, because somewhere along the way she learned that she could. *Nobody's ever stopped her, and there's a neverending supply of new meat looking for a leader to guide them.* Those two things are the recipe for disaster. Even if older members eventually wise up and move on, there's always new meat willing to rabidly defend her and fund her coffers with their own personal donations.

Anonymous said...

Continued:

On that note I'll leave off with this idea - A couple of years ago Laura had an online fundraiser to get money for the SOTT's lawsuit against the Higher Balance Institute, based out of Portland, Oregon. In the first go-round they raised $100,000, in only two weeks. The second go-round they pulled in another $70,000, in about a week. That's $170,000 total in less than a month's time. *Whatever happened to that money?* After that you never heard another word about this lawsuit. For every ten people who've been wronged by them, there's like another 100 willing to give them all the money they have. That's scary.

Visible said...

Wow, those are some comments. I never felt any power at all but I am immune to any power but the one. I don't know what the truth is but I believe I have explained my end of things and if I can be more forthcoming I will. I simply had dinner and sang at their karaoke evening and got drunk with some other people. I might have been a little over the top musically, since I change the lyrics to songs sometimes being funny or satirical scatological; not to everyone's tastes I am sure but tame in comparison to some of the stuff I hear.

I came back the next day and that didn't go so well but I attributed that to my own shortcomings at the time which I am sure was true to an extent but as I said, it wasn't anything egregious.

I did ask to do the ouija thing with her, expecting nothing from it and that was the case, nothing at all but that is how it goes with me. My only concern is how I may have fucked up in any way by posting what I did. I'm sure some people don't approve of me now because there is the matter of emails and my responses of an apologetic nature that go unresponded to, though in a particular case it could well have to do with something else.

For my own part I'm just contrite about whatever my part on the negative end might have been, except for where I mayh have been correct and truthful and I hope I have that adjusted at this point.

I'm having a fine evening right now, being extemporaneous with a fine German guitar player, singing off the cuff and letting it fly, so that's in the process and off I go.

Anonymous said...

No-one seems to consider demonic possession as a result of the Ouija. Was she always this mean, or was there a “changeover” somewhere. I read Montalk’s story where he describes something like a changeover in Laura around 2003, and many have alluded to around the same time period where the channel “broke up” and wasn’t the Cs anymore.

Vincent Bridges is of the opinion that something went wrong during one of Laura’s “mirror sessions” around the same time. Not sure if he’s referring to scrying.

So…did the exorcist became possessed herself? If it's not Laura anymore, that puts a whole new spin on this thing.

Zel said...

I'm impressed you've raised the issue of SOTT's persecution by the French government - it should be obvious to all bloggers in the alternative media how fucked up such government actions are and how dangerous to free speech, yet the only site I've read this news on, has been yours.

I've read SOTT now and then, though I'm not a daily visitor, and I find their articles well written, and their thrust honest - they try to build the best case they can and while I will disagree with them often enough, I believe their writers have integrity.

I'd leave it at that, and give you a nod of respect, but I suspect you've irritated your share of trolls by mentioning SOTT's predicament, and I hope they support you on their website next time you come under attack, as you inevitably will.

Visible said...

A new Smoking Mirrors-

Is Hang a Banker Day coming to a Theater near You?

Anonymous said...

Meet Zel, he works in our public relations department.

He has his hands full, as you can well imagine.

~ From the Church of The Fellowship of the Cosmic Mind ~

Zoner said...

Very late to this party, but by observing SOTT for a few years one thing stood out - a complete lack of humility and a willingness to absolutely ATTACK anyone who doesn't fall in line. It just reeked of intolerance and insecurity, and also of an intense desire to control. I also saw lots of words arranged in a certain order but often had trouble following Laura's writings. Maybe it was style, maybe I'm too stoopid to grok any of it, or maybe it is all self-serving bullshit - I don't know or care, really. Trust but verify and it seemed to activate my "Warning - Danger" mechanism so away I went, although I still drop in from time to time when I'm bored and want to watch a UFO video or something.

I hadn't been there for some time, and checked in on the day they were all about "Smoking may be good for you" because of the way one's lungs get coated acting as a shield or some such. Well, removing the head would eliminate headaches, too, but I really don't know and will just choose to avoid smoking based on what I know.

Kudos to you, Les, for keeping an open mind about them. They would likely not do the same for you and that speaks volumes about where your heart lies, and theirs in turn.

Anonymous said...

@ Anonymous 11:54

Actually people have considered the possession thing and/or manipulation by negative forces. It wasn't mentioned here yet, but yes, people out there in the world have definitely considered it. I don't believe for a second that Laura's fully in control of herself. There's a reason I would never put my hands onto a ouija board, and it's because of this exact sort of thing. In Laura's case however she's had her hands on one on a regular basis for going on two decades now. Can't be a good thing. I wanted to say it earlier but held back, but her personality traits (cold, vindictive, cunning/devious, takes pleasure in hurting and destroying others, no personal responsibility/no remourse, never loses energy for her targetting of a person no matter how many years go by, one track mind, targeting the good researchers who are "of the light" almost like she's a heat seeking missile, etc.) are all traits commonly associated with demonic entities.

Anonymous said...

I’m also late to this party. While all this drama was going on, has any of you seen the news release from CERN in Switzerland on Friday? They had discovered neutrinos moved faster than the speed of light.

If so, there goes E=MC2!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2040735/Speed-light-experiments-baffling-result-Cern-Did-Einstein-wrong.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/life-and-physics/2011/sep/24/1?CMP=twt_gu

Hosting Nuggets said...

My god this is even better than mike shiva!

Anonymous said...

Understanding the cultic nature of cassiopaea takes time and a lot of research into psychological manipulation, thought reform techniques etc.

There are many excellent posts here that point you in the right direction for study.

Les, I strongly advise for you to look deeper into all this and then come back and comment again. Abusers and manipulators are well known for playing the sympathy card

Consider for a moment that the opposition to cassiopaea are made up by people who have lost loved ones, children, parents, husbands, wives into this cult and are going through immence pain, and granted, this is difficult for one to understand unless they are going through it.

The level of ignorance when it comes to cults is astounding, we live in turbulent political and spiritual times and such times provide an optimum growth medium for cults, they want you money, your soul and your mind.

The psychological damage caused by cults to the individual is devastating.

Anonymous said...

Zoner said:

“I hadn't been there for some time, and checked in on the day they were all about "Smoking may be good for you" because of the way one's lungs get coated acting as a shield or some such.”

Their smoking advertising originally started when those Ouija demons they talk to told them that the 4th dimensional reptilians don’t like to eat smokers…and nowadays vegetarians as well, and as a result they have been fiercely looking for any article on the internet that mentions anything beneficial about nicotine intake.

Nicotine does the same thing that caffeine does, it gives you a brief lift, that’s all.

I started smoking in my mid-teens, and smoked for almost 3 decades. In my mid-forties my breathing became very labored, and walking distances caused me to be out of breath. I also coughed up a lot of phlegm in the mornings. When a doctor sent me to have my lung capacity tested, it was 40%. I stopped smoking, and it has been 3 years now and I had my lung capacity tested recently, it was 90%.

I started exercising as well, because the episode gave me quite a fright. I have never felt better. We have a doctor in the family, and she has often recounted stories of when they were still medical students and saw what the lungs of a smokers looked like on their cadavers.

It’s not the nicotine that’s the problem, everyone knows nicotine is not a carcinogen. It’s the tar that builds up in the lungs that is the problem, and that goes for “roll your own organic tobacco” as well.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/10566.php

I have many friends who smoke, it doesn’t bother me. Each to his own, but they don’t encourage everyone to start smoking “cause it’s good for you”. Geeze!

Anonymous said...

From Captive Hearts Captive Minds: Freedom and Recovery from Cults and Abusive Relationships - Madeline Landau Tobias and Janja Lalich (p. 67):

http://www.amazon.com/Captive-Hearts-Minds-Recovery-Relationships/dp/1863737812/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1312488654&sr=8-2

The Cult Leader as Psychopath

Glibness/Superficial charm

Glibness is a hallmark of psychopaths. They are able to use language effortlessly to beguile, confuse, and convince. They are captivating storytellers. They exude self-confidence and are able to spin a web that intrigues others and pulls them into the psychopath's life. Most of all, they are persuasive. Frequently they have the capacity to destroy their critics verbally or disarm them emotionally.

Manipulative and Conning

Cult leaders do not recognize the individuality or rights of others, which makes all self-serving behaviors permissible. The hallmark of the psychopath is the psychopathic maneuver; which is essentially interpersonal manipulation based on charm. The manipulator appears to be helpful, charming, even ingratiating or seductive, but is covertly hostile, domineering.... The victim is perceived as an aggressor, competitor, or merely as an instrument to be used.... The manipulation inevitably becomes the end-all and is no longer qualified by the reality principle. In other words, there are no checks on the psychopath's behavior - anything goes. The psychopath divides the world into suckers, sinners, and herself. She discharges powerful feelings of terror and rage by dominating and humiliating her victims. She is particularly successful when, through an overlay of charm, she makes an ally of her victim - a process sometimes described as emotional vampirism or emotional terrorism. Examples of this type of manipulation are plentiful in the literature of Jonestown and other cultic groups. It is especially prevalent in the one-on-one cultic relationship, where there is direct involvement with the manipulator.

Anonymous said...

Continued:

Grandiose Sense of Self

The cult leader enjoys tremendous feelings of entitlement. She believes everything is owed to her as a right. Preoccupied with her own fantasies, she must always be the center of attention. She presents herself as the "Ultimate One" enlightened, a vehicle of God, a genius, the leader of humankind, and sometimes even the most humble of humble. She has an insatiable need for adulation and attendance. Her grandiosity may also be a defense against inner emptiness, depression, and a sense of insignificance. Paranoia often accompanies the grandiosity, reinforcing the isolation of the group and the need for protection against a perceived hostile environment. In this way, she creates an us-versus-them mentality.

Pathological Lying

Psychopaths lie coolly and easily, even when it is obvious they are being untruthful. It is almost impossible for them to be consistently truthful about either a major or minor issue. They lie for no apparent reason, even when it would seem easier and safer to tell the truth. This is sometimes called "crazy lying." Confronting their lies may provoke an unpredictably incense rage or simply a Buddha-like smile.

Another form of lying common among cult leaders is known as pseudologica fantastica, an extension of pathological lying. Leaders tend to create a complex belief system, often about their own powers and abilities, in which they themselves sometimes get caught up. It is often difficult to determine whether the lies are an actual delusional distortion of reality or are expressed with the conscious or unconscious intent to deceive. These manipulators are rarely original thinkers. Plagiarists and thieves, they seldom credit the true originators of ideas, often co-opting authorship. They are extremely convincing, forceful in the expression of their views, and talented at passing lie detector tests. For them, objective truth does not exist. The only "truth" is whatever will best achieve the outcome that meets their needs. This type of opportunism is very difficult to understand for those who are not psychopaths. For this reason, followers are more apt to invent or go along with all kinds of explanations and rationales for apparent inconsistencies in behavior "I know my guru must have had a good reason for doing this." "He did it because he loves me even though it hurts."

Anonymous said...

Some SOTT lies in real-time. This is getting a bit old:

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/235701-Martial-Law-and-the-Authoritarian-Follower

farang said:

"Lastly: Commenting on the Zionists at Max Keiser got me banned from comments......I'd keep a healthy skepticism of his motivation...he claims to be "an observer of worldly events", in fact, was in Greece during their uprising...and yet somehow Israel never is in his field of vision....nor is Zionism...which seems damn odd for someone berating "Banksters" for a living........and not a word about the Palestinian Statehood attempt....."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Max Keiser:

"Israel The Zionist Rogue State"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH5qEcCdBmY

Max Keiser and Paul Craig Roberts on Zionist Crimes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhGzwwNWGmU

And besides, as if it's even nessecary to expand on this, Max Keiser will not appear on RT if he was a Zionist apologist, RT is extremely critical of Israel...wakey-wakey.....

Educate yourself some more:

http://maxkeiser.com/2011/09/21/israel-losing-asymmetric-war-to-palestine/

I don't see any "commenting on the Zionists being banned"... do you?

Anonymous said...

I'm posting this anonymously and will be a little vague for reasons which will be clear. Les knows me and I can verify this with an email to him if he wishes. I agree that Laura and SOTT do some good work bringing the psychopaths under the spotlight. I came into contact with them about 6 years ago and became a SOTT editor shortly after. I have met Laura and the gang and was a part of their QFG group for a couple of years. I have been to the Chateau twice and it was this second event in which I experienced the 180 deg turn, Mind Fuck that has been commented on here. She tried to break up my marriage and have me abandon my 1 year old child. Laura showed her hand and she totally discredited herself. I was kicked out of the group, the "Church" and SOTT. To this day I'm still trying to figure out what happened. However, I'm not one of those who seeks revenge or anything of that nature. I have better things to do. If she's out there shining a light on the darkness without my help then all I say is go to it. People's concerns here about getting involved with this group are warranted. Best to avoid contact with them.

Anonymous said...

Continuing from my previous content about being the SOTT/QFG member in Laura's group. You can read the all about how she trashed me, my wife, and our son here: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,16438.0.html

Note that my son is NOT autistic. He is now a perfectly healthy, intelligent, walking, running, jumping, playful 3 year old.

Anonymous said...

@ 4:12
Wow, what a surprise!
Yes, when children are involved it's often a trigger.
But unfortunately not always.

Anonymous said...

Let me guess, Anonymous, since I was also an insider, so I know the standard operating procedure.

After you refused to abandon your wife and child, she posted a “Ouija session” ;) on the public discussion forum where “the Ouija” ;) said:

• Your wife is an implanted organic portal/matrix agent/under the control of the reptilians and programmed for the purpose of destroying Laura and the group through you – vector for attack

• When you said it’s absurd, they “consulted the Ouija” again and “the Ouija” said she’s an “unconscious” agent, and unaware of it herself, completely controlled through her implant

• They most likely said something is wrong with your child as well… just to get a last kick in, when they lost the battle, and you refused to leave your family

Laura gets some sick satisfaction from breaking up families, marriages, couples and friends.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for sharing anonymous, my post went through before your 2nd post came through about your child being "autistic", but I know how they operate.

Yes, everyone is a threat to Laura, even a one year old child. I'm sorry for what has happened to you, I was still a member when that whole thing played out.

Fortunately, I came to my senses about them and the path they have chosen, and left.

Anonymous said...

Nail on head.

Anonymous said...

@ Anonymous 10:03:00

Did we know each other personally? I've always felt deeply disturbed that not one person in the group contacted us personally to get our take on the incident and to verify for themselves that our son wasn't autistic, my wife wasn't an "Organic Portal" or an alien-implanted, cointelpro whatever. Good for you for coming to your senses.

Anonymous said...

It's best not to speak here, too many eyes.

It has taken me a while to put all the pieces together, after I started seeing them for what they are.

Of course your wife is not an "Organic Portal" or an alien-implanted, cointelpro whatever. Organic portals don't exist. It's one of Laura's inventions to break up families.

The left hand path is the path of separation. Someone posted this earlier in the thread:

http://truthaction.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2434&start=210

(5th post from the top)

Now that you know them, you may understand why they venerate Gurdjieff, Mouravieff and Castenada, all con men and left hand path individuals.

If you want I can contact you. Is there a way I can get hold of you?

Anonymous said...

There is a time to say he never had organic portal or alien-implanted on earth or elsewhere. But there has always been crooks and charlatans to live on the back as pests. It is a fact long recognized, always detected, and sometimes eliminated. We're here : solar.wind@mail.com

Anonymous said...

Laura’s “organic portal” invention is reminiscent of the Spanish inquisition or the Salem witch trials. She screams “WITCH!!!” and her lynch mob goes into action, no questions asked.

Anybody who catches on to her game, doubts her, disagrees with her or questions anything, is next in line, and quickly the next recipient of the label “organic portal”, “psychopath”, “matrix agent”, “COINTELPRO agent”, “implanted”, “under the control of the reptilians” etc. etc.

One of Laura’s other delusional inventions, something that also surfaced during your ordeal, was that someone can be programmed to fall in love. She takes the most beautiful thing, love, that which makes us human, and the most beautiful thing between two people, and demonizes it and destroys it. She does this because she’s terribly jealous, insecure and always threatened, and doesn’t grant anybody any happiness.

That’s why she drills Gurdjieff’s “conscious suffering” and “the horror of the situation” into her cult members, because it really is a matter of “ain’t Laura happy, ain’t nobody happy”…

No that Comet Elenin has broken up and the world is not ending, after she was full time fear mongering in the beginning of the year, and the "Black Death" is not upon us, she needs to invent a new fear scenario. Stay tuned...

Anonymous said...

Laura admits, nay boasts about, her contact with The Archons via her Ouija-board.

She may call them Cassiopeians, but The Archons have a long history of deception.

You trust her at your own peril!

Anonymous said...

Anonymous, you can make contact here if you want:

webmaster@secret-history-of-laura-knight-jadczyk.info

The 'Secret History of Laura Knight-Jadczyk' website was created to help cult survivors:

http://www.secret-history-of-laura-knight-jadczyk.info/forum/

:)

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said:

"One of Laura’s other delusional inventions, something that also surfaced during your ordeal, was that someone can be programmed to fall in love."

Oh yes, oh yes...and guess where Laura got that idea from. This book:

The Love Bite: Alien Interference in Human Love Relationships

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0967773709?ie=UTF8&tag=mntlkhmpg-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=1789&creativeASIN=0967773709

Another weapon in her arsenal to destroy relationships, for when her "organic portal" tactic gets a bit old.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said:

“I've always felt deeply disturbed that not one person in the group contacted us personally to get our take on the incident and to verify for themselves that our son wasn't autistic, my wife wasn't an "Organic Portal" or an alien-implanted, cointelpro whatever.”

You will understand completely if you take a bit of time to study cult psychology. It’s a bit of a dark branch of social psychology to study, but well worth it after your experience. The mind control is very strong, that’s why “exit counseling” is a profession today.

From Captive Hearts, Captive Minds: Freedom and Recovery from Cults and Abusive Relationships:

http://www.amazon.com/Captive-Hearts-Minds-Recovery-Relationships/dp/1863737812/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1309080971&sr=8-5

“In America today an estimated 5000 cults have affected over 10 million people. Whether their focus is religion, politics, therapy or self-improvement, cults exact an inestimable cost, both emotionally and financially, from those who join. Sensitively written by two former cult members, this book provides the hands-on help ex-cultists need to recover from manipulation and mind control.”

The poster nevealexandra has cited some excellent books on cult psychology here:

http://truthaction.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2434&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=90

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said:

"Oh yes, oh yes...and guess where Laura got that idea from. This book:

The Love Bite: Alien Interference in Human Love Relationships"

Yes, she can't conceive of the idea that two people love each other and want to be together, it MUST be "alien interference"...

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